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Old 12-19-23 | 09:48 AM
  #8896  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
A 20 year old LX is also waiting on a $5,000 repair. Nothing lasts forever. I have a 2003 ES300 with 215,000 miles. My mom drives it maybe 1,000 miles a year. If I all of a sudden started driving it 1,500 miles a month it would explode lol. I would be on the side of the road in 3 months.
Fair enough.

I'm not saying go try it but are you sure? I bet with a good tune up there's a good chance it has life left, it's just a Camry.

Originally Posted by SW17LS
That makes no sense, sorry. Using a vehicle creates wear, everything has a life. A car that is driven 30,000 miles a year suffers from WAY more wear than a car driven 3,000 miles a year.
Well yeah, that's 10xs the mileage lol. What I mean is if I drove my SL say, 12k miles a year... double what I do now.. I don't think there'd be any issues. 12k miles a year is perfectly within the realm of average around here.

Originally Posted by SW17LS
But you drive very little. If I were driving it 15-20k a year I would have reliability problems because the old, worn components wouldn't stand up to that use. Plastic, rubber, sensors, wiring, all of that becomes brittle and weak with age, and heavy use causes failures.
Would you drive an R129 15-20k a year? I thought you said you'd want to just look at it in the garage mostly.

Originally Posted by SW17LS
Its a great vehicle, but it has no soul...its a wonderful car to drive when its new but it never offered me any reason to want to keep it. My Mercedes is the first car I have had that I legitimately am not ready to part with it, even for another car I really like a lot.
It has a soul, I really think it does. It is just so luxurious, so flawless, so effortless, so buttery. So freaking reliable. It's not really fun to drive but it drives so well in general it's almost crazy. Back when Lexus knew what they were doing with the LS.

That said if I had a huge fire, I'd watch my house, and both other cars burn to the ground from the street in the SL because I'd save the Mercedes. Trust me I get it.
Old 12-19-23 | 09:55 AM
  #8897  
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Originally Posted by Stroock639
one clear difference in philosophy between my cars is the benz will do a clear 'cold start' where it's a whole big dramatic thing for like 20 seconds then it settles right down, whereas the LS and other toyota products i've seen will have an initial high idle that gradually subsides over the next few minutes

my dad's car does a GREAT cold start lol, and that's 100% factory stock!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIrtUdY-LLA
Nasssssty.

The Denali has a great cold start, I'll grab a video soon. I think the engine is too quiet and you can't hear the exhaust inside but it has a seriously legit exhaust from the outside, it sounds dirrrrty. I always use the remote start so I can hear the exhaust rumble walking up to it.
Old 12-19-23 | 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Although that is generally true, it depends on the circumstances. Few things are worse for ICE engines/transmissions than to just let them sit for extended periods, without being driven.
Not disputing that, but there is a spectrum. The engine and the transmission are also just two components of a vehicle, there is LOTS more that can go wrong that dont invo;ve the engine or transmission.

Originally Posted by AJT123
I'm not saying go try it but are you sure? I bet with a good tune up there's a good chance it has life left, it's just a Camry.
Oh absolutely. It has the original struts, all the hoses etc are original, timing belt is way past time to be done, it leaks some oil. It could be brought back with an investment in repairing and replacing a lot of stuff, but to just start driving it like it is? It wouldn't last 3 months.

Well yeah, that's 10xs the mileage lol. What I mean is if I drove my SL say, 12k miles a year... double what I do now.. I don't think there'd be any issues. 12k miles a year is perfectly within the realm of average around here.
You would have issues. 20 year old cars are just not as reliable as a new car. You have all kinds of 20 year old components that when put to that kind of stress would fail.

Would you drive an R129 15-20k a year? I thought you said you'd want to just look at it in the garage mostly.
No, I would drive it on weekends etc. I wouldn't daily one.

It has a soul, I really think it does. It is just so luxurious, so flawless, so effortless, so buttery. So freaking reliable. It's not really fun to drive but it drives so well in general it's almost crazy. Back when Lexus knew what they were doing with the LS.
Those things don't give it a soul, its hard to describe. Being extremely competent isn't a soul. When something else is given to you that does all those things better, what are you left with? The Mercedes has a personality that the Lexus just doesn't have. For instance once I realized that I could swing the S560, I had no emotion just dumping the LS460L. I feel very differently about the S560 now at the same part of its life.

I would never go back and buy an old Lexus (Save the 98-00 LS400, but thats more nostalgia than it is the car itself), but there are multiple old Mercedes I would like to have...
Old 12-19-23 | 11:31 AM
  #8899  
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IMO there isn't a blander design, interior or exterior, than a 2000's Toyota/Lexus product. It was an era where most automotive design was rather bland but Toyota took that to another level for the most part.

But even in the more recent years, the GS was a sad competitor to the 5 series or E Class. It had nothing to offer really.


Old 12-19-23 | 11:35 AM
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I get it, I do about the Mercedes. Lol there’s a reason it’s that and not an SC430 in the garage.

But oh lord if something happened to my LS430 I would be devastated.

We love LX too of course but that’s easily replaceable.

LS430 I’ve had since age 29, it’s been driven across country and back, driven in LA gridlock for 2 years. It would be horrendous if the 430 got totaled or something. It may not have the soul you think it lacks but it’s ABSOLUTELY a special car.
Old 12-19-23 | 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
Those things don't give it a soul, its hard to describe. Being extremely competent isn't a soul. When something else is given to you that does all those things better, what are you left with? The Mercedes has a personality that the Lexus just doesn't have. For instance once I realized that I could swing the S560, I had no emotion just dumping the LS460L. I feel very differently about the S560 now at the same part of its life.

I would never go back and buy an old Lexus (Save the 98-00 LS400, but thats more nostalgia than it is the car itself), but there are multiple old Mercedes I would like to have...
ahh yes a car having "soul"... i'm predominantly convinced that's a term (with respect to cars) popularized by clarkson as a way of celebrating his own continent's mediocrity and inconsistency... this old jag is total rubbish, the bodywork is literally disintegrating before my eyes and the car won't even start on thursdays, that's the soul! i disagree, i think that's just a way of excusing and distracting from poor design and shoddy workmanship

i think the "soul" of the LS 400 comes from the clear results of years and years of arduous and toilsome work by teams of brilliant, dedicated takumi who seemed personally invested in the success of the project, and from mr. toyoda himself who wanted to show the world what his company could truly accomplish

also just take one look at the LS 400 brochure, you're basically flat out being instructed to hit the gas when the light turns green and immediately feel smug from how quickly all the other peasants are being left in your executive dust lol
Old 12-19-23 | 11:53 AM
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I hesitate using soul with any seriousness when discussing cars, but Lexus products generally had/have a distinct lack of passion from my view. I found the LS430 to be the automotive equivalent of oatmeal. It was of no surprise to me that once Mercedes got their act together, the S-class regained its sales crown. Many Lexus buyers in the upper end were Mercedes defectors that ended up going back to Benz in the late 2000s.
Old 12-19-23 | 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AJT123
Well yeah, that's 10xs the mileage lol. What I mean is if I drove my SL say, 12k miles a year... double what I do now.. I don't think there'd be any issues. 12k miles a year is perfectly within the realm of average around here.
.
If you drive your more as a daily driver and double your miles, the repairs and maintenance will increase. There is no doubt about it. at 22 years of age, your SL is a ticking time bomb towards a big repair. Your regular maintenance increases based on age... buying one of these SL's is a terrible investment from the cost of ownership POV


Originally Posted by AJT123



Those things don't give it a soul, its hard to describe. Being extremely competent isn't a soul. When something else is given to you that does all those things better, what are you left with? The Mercedes has a personality that the Lexus just doesn't have. For instance once I realized that I could swing the S560, I had no emotion just dumping the LS460L. I feel very differently about the S560 now at the same part of its life.

I would never go back and buy an old Lexus (Save the 98-00 LS400, but thats more nostalgia than it is the car itself), but there are multiple old Mercedes I would like to have...
I think the LX models have some soul. More specifically the LX450/LX470 models. Very unique and a very good following. Similar to a G-wagon. Not so much the GX. LS600h in hindsight is a pretty good effort too. Not all Mercedes cars have soul. LS400 and LS430 are dull


Originally Posted by AJT123
BTW I love watching things like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkmtraSZmGk
That sounds awful to me.

I would never go back and buy an old Lexus (Save the 98-00 LS400, but thats more nostalgia than it is the car itself), but there are multiple old Mercedes I would like to have..
​​​​​​​I can see that.

Last edited by Toys4RJill; 12-19-23 at 12:19 PM.
Old 12-19-23 | 11:59 AM
  #8904  
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Originally Posted by AJT123
This is silly--- you know exactly what I mean, and you know how much I love both of my Lexuses, and am looking for an LC in a couple years. But go in my garage and start the LS430 and then start the SL, big difference.
i'm not saying you don't love your lexus' and i'm not saying they're bad in any way! they're great!! but i AM saying you said they're up there with mercedes and it's not even close.

Originally Posted by BrettJacks
IMO there isn't a blander design, interior or exterior, than a 2000's Toyota/Lexus product. It was an era where most automotive design was rather bland but Toyota took that to another level for the most part.
haha, agreed for the most part, although my gs400 was AMAZING inside and out for its day. white optitron gauges, actually decent navigation (while everyone else was using a garmin lol), great seats, controls, beast of an engine which no one would call bland, etc. but yeah, a camry at that time was very bland.
Old 12-19-23 | 11:59 AM
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back to lexus vs mb, 12 cyliners, etc., just watched this...

5 First World Problems I'm Having With "The Best Car In The World" My $250K Mercedes S65 AMG



Old 12-19-23 | 12:04 PM
  #8906  
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Originally Posted by TangoRed
I hesitate using soul with any seriousness when discussing cars, but Lexus products generally had/have a distinct lack of passion from my view. I found the LS430 to be the automotive equivalent of oatmeal. It was of no surprise to me that once Mercedes got their act together, the S-class regained its sales crown. Many Lexus buyers in the upper end were Mercedes defectors that ended up going back to Benz in the late 2000s.
haven't driven the 430 but i have seen several people say they prefer driving their 400 to the 430

i also think the LS in general is something that grows on you over time, i'll be the first to point out that my E-class definitely makes a cooler initial impression in terms of this is why the car is awesome, whereas the LS needs to be lived with (and more crucially, pushed a bit on the highway) at which point it starts aging like fine wine

but i agree with you generally speaking there is a lack of passion from toyota/lexus models, it's like every decade they'll try really hard at something and spend the next several years seemingly content to not improve yet
Old 12-19-23 | 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
If you drive your more as a daily driver and double your miles, the repairs and maintenance will increase. There is no doubt about it. at 22 years of age, your SL is a ticking time bomb towards a big repair. Your regular maintenance increases based on age... buying one of these SL's is a terrible investment from the cost of ownership POV
I could sell it today for 13-15k more than I paid for it. AT LEAST. ROI will always be fine. It will just appreciate more and more.

And I really don’t think there’s any ticking time bomb… they run well into 200k if cared for correctly. There are no fatal flaws in these, just the tops need to be taken care of and hydraulics replaed.

Land Cruisers/LXs have soul for sure. So does an LS400/430 though.

Stoorock had it dead on.
Old 12-19-23 | 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AJT123
I could sell it today for 13-15k more than I paid for it. AT LEAST. ROI will always be fine. It will just appreciate more and more.

.
show me where you could sell it for $15,000 more than you paid

And I really don’t think there’s any ticking time bomb… they run well into 200k if cared for correctly. There are no fatal flaws in these, just the tops need to be taken care of and hydraulics replaed.
you are wrong. Any major component could fail tomorrow. if your engine and transmission failed, what would you do then? Would you replace the engine?
Old 12-19-23 | 12:49 PM
  #8909  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
show me where you could sell it for $15,000 more than you paid
I’d just list it and not take a penny less than asking. I don’t think you realize how good of condition the car is in.

One with 205,000 miles sold for 12k recently. I have 64k.
Old 12-19-23 | 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
you are wrong. Any major component could fail tomorrow. if your engine and transmission failed, what would you do then? Would you replace the engine?
I could say the same thing to you, don’t you own a 2004 vehicle?

M113s and 722.5 are proven very durable.



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