Striker223

Hey! I know those, I am kinda sad I can't find one new since it would've been perfect for the stairs, the Kirby is basically that in upright form with self-propel

Toys4RJill

That is a good point. Never would have thought about that.

LeX2K

Company doesn't make them anymore sadly but they still sell accessories. The filter bag sits in another bag that is made of Kevlar in case the paper bag explodes which is does sometimes if I vacuum up sharp things like broken glass. Don't do that with your Dyson.
Made in Canada there were similar ones sold in the U.S. I think. It comes with a power brush which is incredible.

LeX2K

Ha, it does. But now I want one.
Probably. I've always wanted to collect tube TVs from the 50's in fact I would but they are very hard to find.

On that plastic part being stained, yes it is painted and not very well either.

Striker223

https://www.underhoodservice.com/tim...ch-oils-fault/

Go to the 6:45 mark.......

On the topic of newer stuff being cheaper.....chains 100% have more issues and are mainly used since they are cheaper to produce and implement, they really require a lot more user care if you want them to last. ANY engine with long chains and oil driven tensioners will be very susceptible to this vs a belt car long term, if the chain had it's own oil it would be a different story. Since they don't and are forced to share with the main oil system you need to make sure you change the oil a lot. Many many people who deal with a lot of engines will tell you endless stories of chains going to crap under "normal" owners

I actually had a car brought in that shocked me, it is an 09 Saturn Aura XR with the 3.6 and the engine WORKED and was totally silent with no issues at 187k. I called the owner and asked him it was the original engine or not and he being the only owner assured me it was and that he changes oil at 50% on the screen since he doesn't trust it and uses full syn. The result is one of the only 3.6 engines I have been around that is silent and smooth, but he did change oil every 3000 miles or less and unfortunately most people don't change oil on time. Now to be fair the car is likely dead since I think the trans is beyond help, it has a few more possible things I can check but it seems like the VB works but we just aren't getting 4/5/6 gears

Och

iTrader: (3)

I don't know why people make such a big deal out of the timing belt replacement, for most cars it used to be a $400-800 job, including all the parts, at a reputable shop. Any sort of chain issue is going to cost far more than that.

Check out the video at 3:30, where the guy is talking about a motorcycle drive chain. A timing chain is not much different, it also has hundreds of moving parts that wear, as well as the sprockets that wear. I have two motorcycles with belt drive, I chose them specifically because I didn't want to deal with chain maintenance.

SW17LS

I can’t possibly see how a timing chain can be cheaper to implement than a timing belt…

Striker223

Exactly. It's one of those things that everyone assumes chain is better till they have to deal with it/live with it long term, chain repair usually means engine out for any FWD platform and a pain even in RWD

Bike guys like you really get it easily...

SW17LS

Chain repair may mean that, but it’s incredibly rare an owner has to do a chain repair.

Most owners also never replace a timing belt.

Striker223

It doesn't require a dedicated area dry area of the engine, a oiling system based hydraulic tensioner is cheaper than a standalone, no extra covers outside, no really advanced belt to validate and spec on a per engine basis (just add more or less MASS produced links to a chain to get the length you need), and you can combine functions of parts that would otherwise have to be separate castings/designed to operate on their own vs using engine oil supply, you do not need to be as careful with "wrap" around pulleys since the sprockets allow you do have much less coverage in theory, and most importantly you can package the engine in such a way there doesn't need to be any access to get to the chain with the engine in the car.

That last bit is the big one. it costs a LOT more in terms of design and space to make something in car serviceable, the chain engines are usually a "drop it out" type event vs 2-3 hours in a garage, however that's fine since it won't fail during warranty and you probably wont get class actioned like ford with the 3.5/3.8 FWD engines did. They thought it was very clever to chain drive the water pump vs a more space consuming and costly external serpentine belt but forgot they are ford and said pumps would fill the crankcase with coolant when they failed abruptly.....a great example of cost cutting that on paper works but has a hilariously predicable result. They did NOT do it that way on the trucks, they still have external pumps.

Striker223

I have done more chains than belts, it's actually super common and one of THE most purchased parts in many part systems. As you said most don't even replace the belts and it's fine......but if they do want to change it is easier and the scary thing about chains is that no brand/design is immune except for cam in block designs due to how short the system is, but they still can wear out of spec. Belt cars are at least known to be really good and can go vastly over or known to be a junk design that you should avoid.

SW17LS

Then why don’t we see a rash or timing chain repairs here on CL, or on any of the other car forums I post on where the cars have timing chains?

Striker223

Oh you do, hesitation issues abound and also remember forums are only used by people who care enough about their car to join so you already are dealing with the best types of owners. Looking at the top 1% or less leaves out all the people I have to deal with day to day who let the cars blow up

Och

iTrader: (3)

Steve, for the eleventhy billionth time, you're looking at it from the perspective of someone who replaces their cars every few years. Chain problems are very common around 10year/100k mark, whether they are being replaced or not is a different story, but an engine running with out of spec chain will not run optimally. Even short oil pump chains are known to be problematic on engines where they are implemented.

Belt problems are a lot less common than chain problems, if at all. Proper OEM belts simply do not break, just look at motorcycles where similar drive belts are exposed to road dirt, UV, water splashing, etc - but you never hear about them breaking. Ditto with timing belts, they do not break on their own, most breakages are caused by a seized pulley, which in turn is caused by improper lubricants/coolants, or aftermarket parts. I've explained it many times before. An engine that is properly maintained with OEM spec fluids can easily do 200k on the original belt, water pump, and pulleys. Its when someone mixes wrong coolant that causes the water pump to leak, or when someone does the TB/water pump job using aftermarket parts, then issues are guaranteed to happen. The problem is, a lot of people are clueless, and do not respect their cars, so it kind of serves them right when they have to pay big bucks for something that could have been avoided with proper maintenance.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Like Striker said, most time these issues occur when the car is reaching the 100k mark, and at that point people simply live with the issues. I just paid $3,400 to fix a very minor oil leak on my E70, which required dropping the subframe - how many people would pay that on a 10 year old car?