LeX2K

Toyota's hybrids don't quality for subsidies in China that's why they threw together this car. To be fair this car is riding on the e-TNGA unibody I'm not sure if Toyota ships bodies to China or is made in China.
Yep, Toyota is putting in 50% cash into this specific venture.

Toys4RJill

Joint venture company 50-50. Toyota/BYD company

‘’from BYD.




from BYD

Motorola

I don't see anywhere that mentions this vehicle riding on e-TNGA which was developed for use between Toyota and Subaru. I'm pretty sure this is a BYD platform.

LeX2K

This is not correct and what people are pointing out. Toyota is sharing 50% cost in this newly formed company.
I read it somewhere, gain of salt may not be true.

Toys4RJill

Toyota has a 50-50 equity partnership with BYD for a EV company/firm. This new car will not say built by BYD, nor will it say built by Toyota Motor Corp.

Motorola

You are aware that BYD the company is not the same as the joint venture company made by BYD and Toyota, right?

Toyota does not have a 50% stake in BYD itself.

Toys4RJill

That is exactly what I have been saying. You claim Toyota has nothing to do with this, but you are completely wrong. Toyota and BYD own a company they has developed all of this together, this is not BYD slapping a Toyota badge on this. This is how it works in China if Toyota wants to sell there.

If you want to say that I claim that Toyota has a 50% ownership in BYD, then claim it. You are just being pedantic if you do.

The BMW Toyota Supra partnership is different than this. The building of the Supra is not even build by BMW or Toyota. It’s outsourced to a 3rd party.

LeX2K

This is not a Toyota it's BYD batteries, motors, software. If Toyota had all the needed hardware they would not be partnering with anyone.

Motorola

Except it isn't, from one of the very first responses I gave you:

Once again, read the article. The components are derived entirely from BYD. Not the BYD-Toyota joint venture, these components are used across all of BYD's EV's and existed well before the venture. The venture only exists to package these components into a Toyota-badged product.

So no, Toyota did not develop the major components of this vehicle. It is a badge-engineered BYD.

Toys4RJill

Toyota has all the tech. They have the most EV patents. Highest R & D. The point of partnering is to share the cost and make it far cheaper to enter the Chinese market. Toyota also ties themselves up with an established EV or car builder which gives them an enormous competitive advantage in China

LeX2K

Patents are not products. Toyota's global EV production numbers proves this beyond any doubt.
Is it working?
Toyota's margins are far below the industry leader. What competitive advantage are you talking about specifically? Why would Toyota have a greater advantage than for example BYD.

Toys4RJill

Its unfair to compare Toyotas margins to anyone else unless they are a full line manufacturer. GM, Ford, VW, Hyundai should be compared

Toys4RJill

The articles authors have no clue what the Toyota-BYD company did for this car from an engineering perspective . Because a motor came from BYD subsidiary does not mean Toyota didn’t have a say it design etc of the motor. Maybe Toyota is using the E-TNGA chassis or did all the body design but nothing on the motor design

We really should wait for the Toyota press release

I think we are going down the wrong lines here…..so I’m gonna stop replying

Motorola

That's exactly what it means. BYD made these components long before its joint venture with Toyota. Same with its battery packs. Did Toyota have a say in the design of BMW's B58 inline 6 when they made the Supra? Nope. And that won't change here.

The only thing I'm certain Toyota did was the body design since we saw the concept, which is the same as what they did for the Supra. Perhaps some suspension tuning and NVH. But mechanically, it's a BYD underneath. And like I said to Lex, I doubt this is E-TNGA because that was developed exclusively for use between Toyota and Subaru, not BYD, and may not even be compatible with BYD's powertrains.

Toys4RJill

Or maybe the whole interior as well. We just don’t know

You don’t know that. Neither does the article. Toyota definitely could have had a say

Why wouldn’t you wait for the official press release?