ClubLexus Hands-On with the 2023 RX (UPDATED!)
09-13-22, 11:36 AM
#91
Is it true they plan to price from 59-69? Sounds like they want to create a similar model like MDX.
Are you serious man? These cars are on average about 20k difference let alone they look, drive, perform differently. RX may be the most selling mid size but there is no way people cross shop RX from an X5/GLE's viewpoint. More like the other way around. I think you have it backward. If it's the other way around, they wouldn't need to say like Motorola said. They can talk all they want but I doubt that it will work. Even one of the reviewers didn't even want to compare to X5/GLE but the MDX Type S.
as they always do.
Or rather, since RX is the best seller and invented the segment, everyone tries to target the RX and this is now RX upping the game.
Only cars Lexus talked about as competitors in media preview were X5, GLE.
Is it a shock to you that X5, GLE and RX are considered mid-sized luxury SUVs, and that people cross shop them?
Or rather, since RX is the best seller and invented the segment, everyone tries to target the RX and this is now RX upping the game.
Only cars Lexus talked about as competitors in media preview were X5, GLE.
Is it a shock to you that X5, GLE and RX are considered mid-sized luxury SUVs, and that people cross shop them?
09-13-22, 11:56 AM
#92
Lead Lap
as they always do.
Or rather, since RX is the best seller and invented the segment, everyone tries to target the RX and this is now RX upping the game.
Only cars Lexus talked about as competitors in media preview were X5, GLE.
Is it a shock to you that X5, GLE and RX are considered mid-sized luxury SUVs, and that people cross shop them?
Or rather, since RX is the best seller and invented the segment, everyone tries to target the RX and this is now RX upping the game.
Only cars Lexus talked about as competitors in media preview were X5, GLE.
Is it a shock to you that X5, GLE and RX are considered mid-sized luxury SUVs, and that people cross shop them?
Don't kid yourself, the RX was never in the same league as the X5 or GLE because it was always priced a segment below, and never had the bones to match the performance or luxury of such options.
The new one is presumably pricing itself into X5 and GLE territory for the first time and it's questionable whether it's earned that price from what we've seen so far, which seems to be more of the same. That's why people in the thread are skeptical when Lexus says they're going after X5 buyers.
The new one is presumably pricing itself into X5 and GLE territory for the first time and it's questionable whether it's earned that price from what we've seen so far, which seems to be more of the same. That's why people in the thread are skeptical when Lexus says they're going after X5 buyers.
09-13-22, 01:11 PM
#93
Lexus Test Driver
For sure, but there's also probably just as many if not more people cross-shopping the RX with a Hyundai Palisade. Badge aside, those two vehicles have more in common than the RX does with any German crossover.
09-13-22, 01:39 PM
#94
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
i wouldn't be surprised if the u.s. is the best market by far for the rx, anyone know?
for bmw and mercedes, they have europe to consider too in a huge way obviously, and i wouldn't be surprised if their 3/5/glc/gle far outsell the nx/rx there?
if those assumptions are true, that would be a good reason why bmw/mercedes/audi doesn't target the rx directly.
however, lexus is making an effort to make the rx target them, with better handling, longer wheelbase, more performance options, and good economy on the hybrids.
in europe i just don't see it. i know several mb/bmw owners who would NEVER EVER consider a lexus.
likewise, in the u.s. we all know lexus owners that are very unlikely to consider mb/bmw!
for bmw and mercedes, they have europe to consider too in a huge way obviously, and i wouldn't be surprised if their 3/5/glc/gle far outsell the nx/rx there?
if those assumptions are true, that would be a good reason why bmw/mercedes/audi doesn't target the rx directly.
however, lexus is making an effort to make the rx target them, with better handling, longer wheelbase, more performance options, and good economy on the hybrids.
in europe i just don't see it. i know several mb/bmw owners who would NEVER EVER consider a lexus.
likewise, in the u.s. we all know lexus owners that are very unlikely to consider mb/bmw!
09-13-22, 01:51 PM
#95
Lexus Test Driver
Supposedly the whole point of targeting the X5 and other Europeans is because Lexus wants to appeal to younger buyers in their 40s, as mentioned from that slide from Savagegeese's review a few pages back. You can only rely on 65 year old RX buyers while they're alive.
09-13-22, 02:11 PM
#96
This is true of most if not all Lexus models. The RX sold only 5,000 units in Europe last year. The X5 sold 43K.
Supposedly the whole point of targeting the X5 and other Europeans is because Lexus wants to appeal to younger buyers in their 40s, as mentioned from that slide from Savagegeese's review a few pages back. You can only rely on 65 year old RX buyers while they're alive.
Supposedly the whole point of targeting the X5 and other Europeans is because Lexus wants to appeal to younger buyers in their 40s, as mentioned from that slide from Savagegeese's review a few pages back. You can only rely on 65 year old RX buyers while they're alive.
09-13-22, 03:09 PM
#97
To be fair, consumers are never 100% black and white with their shopping preferences so there is definitely some cross shopping going on between, say, a GLE350, RX350, and GLC300. The RX's combo of price and size made sure of that. Now, the vast majority of buyers did not act this way and it's a complete farce for spwolf to say everyone is targeting the RX. Clearly the Germans have not been otherwise you would've seen a direct competitor by now. I completely agree with Motorola's assessment.
Lexus is actually Hyundai competition. Right.
09-13-22, 03:13 PM
#98
Lexus Test Driver
Honestly it's not that surprising, Europe is the home turf of the German trio and they more or less have the whole luxury car market to themselves there.
What is surprising is that Lexus never capitalized on their own home turf in Japan, so RX (and Lexus sales in general) are slim there. The car that used to be the RX, the Toyota Harrier in Japan, is what we get now as the Venza. The RX is basically a vehicle designed almost entirely with the U.S. in mind.
The Japanese trio (Honda, Nissan, Toyota) hedged their bets entirely on the U.S. market when they established their luxury brands during the bubble era, and that was a mistake that's cost them pretty dearly in the global market and especially in their domestic market where Mercedes outsells Lexus and Acura/Infiniti don't exist. Not even Genesis made that mistake and made sure to dominate their home South Korean market first before focusing on the U.S. and other parts of the world.
What is surprising is that Lexus never capitalized on their own home turf in Japan, so RX (and Lexus sales in general) are slim there. The car that used to be the RX, the Toyota Harrier in Japan, is what we get now as the Venza. The RX is basically a vehicle designed almost entirely with the U.S. in mind.
The Japanese trio (Honda, Nissan, Toyota) hedged their bets entirely on the U.S. market when they established their luxury brands during the bubble era, and that was a mistake that's cost them pretty dearly in the global market and especially in their domestic market where Mercedes outsells Lexus and Acura/Infiniti don't exist. Not even Genesis made that mistake and made sure to dominate their home South Korean market first before focusing on the U.S. and other parts of the world.
Last edited by Motorola; 09-13-22 at 03:20 PM.
09-13-22, 03:35 PM
#99
This is why every Lexus is designed for USA first, and every other market in secondary. Other big markets are China, Japan, Russia. Western Europe is distant, and sales in Germany are almost non existent (same goes for every other non german premium brand).
USA is basically Lexii's home market.
In 2021, When it comes to RX, its US sales were 115k, and its European sales were 18k (all of europe, including russia where Lexus actually sells).
X5 sold 60k in US and 43k in Western Europe.
Overall, X5 has to sell more than RX, simply because BMW is much bigger brand worldwide, especially in China with local production.
But if we are looking at RX and X5, and using USA+Europe, RX outsells the X5.
And it is a bit insane to think RX is not X5 competitor, and think that customers compare it to Hyundai. But honestly, that particular member misses most of his posts anyway, so I am not surprised.
09-13-22, 03:39 PM
#100
Lexus Test Driver
The RX has more in common with the Palisade than it does the X5. That's why it's not an X5 competitor. If it were, it wouldn't be some $20K+ cheaper and sitting on a FWD Camry platform with struts as others already mentioned.
09-13-22, 04:19 PM
#101
Largest market for Lexus is USA, by far. Around 40% of the sales for Lexus. While for MB/BMW it is more like 15% of the sales.
This is why every Lexus is designed for USA first, and every other market in secondary. Other big markets are China, Japan, Russia. Western Europe is distant, and sales in Germany are almost non existent (same goes for every other non german premium brand).
USA is basically Lexii's home market.
In 2021, When it comes to RX, its US sales were 115k, and its European sales were 18k (all of europe, including russia where Lexus actually sells).
X5 sold 60k in US and 43k in Western Europe.
Overall, X5 has to sell more than RX, simply because BMW is much bigger brand worldwide, especially in China with local production.
But if we are looking at RX and X5, and using USA+Europe, RX outsells the X5.
And it is a bit insane to think RX is not X5 competitor, and think that customers compare it to Hyundai. But honestly, that particular member misses most of his posts anyway, so I am not surprised.
This is why every Lexus is designed for USA first, and every other market in secondary. Other big markets are China, Japan, Russia. Western Europe is distant, and sales in Germany are almost non existent (same goes for every other non german premium brand).
USA is basically Lexii's home market.
In 2021, When it comes to RX, its US sales were 115k, and its European sales were 18k (all of europe, including russia where Lexus actually sells).
X5 sold 60k in US and 43k in Western Europe.
Overall, X5 has to sell more than RX, simply because BMW is much bigger brand worldwide, especially in China with local production.
But if we are looking at RX and X5, and using USA+Europe, RX outsells the X5.
And it is a bit insane to think RX is not X5 competitor, and think that customers compare it to Hyundai. But honestly, that particular member misses most of his posts anyway, so I am not surprised.
09-13-22, 06:08 PM
#102
Lead Lap
That's not what I said at all. The RX is not a direct competitor for the GLE or X5. The RX is a tweener and has enjoyed success in that segment in the U.S. but pales in comparison to the Germans from a global sales perspective. There's nothing wrong with that, the ES more or less does the same thing in that it is bigger than the equivalent C-class or 3-series but sells closer to their price and enjoys great sales (at least historically).
EDIT: I will also add that the Lexus RX, BMW X5, and Mercedes ML did have very similar starting prices during their first 1st and 2nd generations. By the early 2010s the Germans had created a $10k+ discrepancy in price that has been maintained, which is directly because the X3 and GLC arrived. This pushed the RX into tweener territory in relation to the Germans.
Last edited by TangoRed; 09-13-22 at 06:24 PM.
09-14-22, 06:57 AM
#103
Anyone here cross shopping the new RX to the Range Rover Velar? Land Rover has bad quality/reliability numbers however.
09-14-22, 07:05 AM
#104
Lexus Fanatic
I wasn't surprised. I meant for others to swallow.
I don't follow sales numbers and I wouldn't be surprised if Lexus sold more RX than BMW sold X5 in the US. But it's lame to use that fact to make statement like above. My wife had all last three RX's and I currently have a G05. I know how these are different. It is insane to think RX is an X5 competitor.
I don't follow sales numbers and I wouldn't be surprised if Lexus sold more RX than BMW sold X5 in the US. But it's lame to use that fact to make statement like above. My wife had all last three RX's and I currently have a G05. I know how these are different. It is insane to think RX is an X5 competitor.
09-14-22, 08:06 AM
#105
