2023 Lexus ES Gets a Few Updates In Europe
#46
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The only way the ES will switch to RWD or stay below $60K for the upcoming 370 HP version is in dreams lol.
A loaded ES costs basically the same as a base model 4-cylinder AWD G80. The ES in its current form is no competitor to the G80 or any German equivalent.
A loaded ES costs basically the same as a base model 4-cylinder AWD G80. The ES in its current form is no competitor to the G80 or any German equivalent.
#47
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
If you like the ES, there is no reason you wouldn't love the G80.
#48
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Using Genesis sales in general is a pretty low bar when it's been widely known that they have no dealer network, and a limited inventory as a result. There's some 300 2022-23 G80's on sale in the U.S. compared to the 1,000 5-Series and 1,900 ES's.
Compare the ES to a 5 Series and E-Class and see how it fares- I doubt it'll sell anywhere near their numbers once it becomes a $60-70K vehicle with the upcoming generation.
Compare the ES to a 5 Series and E-Class and see how it fares- I doubt it'll sell anywhere near their numbers once it becomes a $60-70K vehicle with the upcoming generation.
#49
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The G80 is all of those things too. The reason it sells so well compared to the G80 is model and brand loyalty. Being a car guy and recognizing what makes the G80 better, no way I would buy an ES over one. But, most people don't care about that stuff.
If you like the ES, there is no reason you wouldn't love the G80.
If you like the ES, there is no reason you wouldn't love the G80.
#50
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I don't agree, a well optioned ES really is in the same price category as a G80, the RWD G80 starts at $49k, the ES starts at $42,000. You can have a well optioned ES that competes with a G80.
#51
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
But the power trains are completely different. Turbos vs naturally aspirated. Then you have Lexes with hybrids. And the fact that they are not the same FWD/RWD. Even the awd systems are very different Very different still. A G80 should be compared to a E, 5 or A6.
#52
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
#53
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The ES is a car that many people buy because they want the room of a 5 or E Class but don’t want to spend that money, like was the case with me. The G80 brings it closer.
#54
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
It is worth noting that the G80 itself takes a bit from the ES value sized formula by being a larger car in its segment at a lower price. Most vehicles in this class are about 100 cubic feet, the G80 is ~107 and you definitely feel it sitting inside. It has the same wheelbase as the W222 SWB S-Class. The G80 is essentially a full-size sold at a midsize price. The ES is a midsize sold at a compact price.
#55
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The price delta is so big between the Germans and the ES that it’s not something most buyers could stretch to do.
#56
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
#57
Lexus Champion
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
We're admittedly a bit off topic, but I'll add an anecdotal story about my neighbor here.
My neighbor, back in 2019 (note: when GS was still available) was searching for a new car. He went to the local Lexus dealer and asked to see a mid-sized sedan in the $50-55K range. The salesman never mentioned the GS, but walked him over to a line of ES350s, so he test drove one of those. He then went to the Genesis dealer and asked the same question - show me your mid-sized sedan in the $50-55k range, so they showed him an AWD G80.
He bought the G80 because he liked the AWD aspect. He absolutely would have considered the AWD GS, but the salesman never mentioned it, so he figured it wasn't available (but it was).
My neighbor, back in 2019 (note: when GS was still available) was searching for a new car. He went to the local Lexus dealer and asked to see a mid-sized sedan in the $50-55K range. The salesman never mentioned the GS, but walked him over to a line of ES350s, so he test drove one of those. He then went to the Genesis dealer and asked the same question - show me your mid-sized sedan in the $50-55k range, so they showed him an AWD G80.
He bought the G80 because he liked the AWD aspect. He absolutely would have considered the AWD GS, but the salesman never mentioned it, so he figured it wasn't available (but it was).
#58
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The point is, they COULD put the ES in the GA-L architecture and appeal to both sets of buyers. Without the Avalon, that may make more financial sense.
#59
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
GA-L apparently has many packaging issues, hence why the LS500 is as tiny inside as it is despite how huge it is on the outside. I can see it working on a SWB version GS-type vehicle, but there's no way that RWD platform can compete with GA-K when it comes to interior packaging and be as spacious as an ES.
#60
Lexus Fanatic
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
It is, but it's nowhere near the features of a $55K ES.
GA-L apparently has many packaging issues, hence why the LS500 is as tiny inside as it is despite how huge it is on the outside. I can see it working on a SWB version GS-type vehicle, but there's no way that RWD platform can compete with GA-K when it comes to interior packaging and be as spacious as an ES.
GA-L apparently has many packaging issues, hence why the LS500 is as tiny inside as it is despite how huge it is on the outside. I can see it working on a SWB version GS-type vehicle, but there's no way that RWD platform can compete with GA-K when it comes to interior packaging and be as spacious as an ES.
What features does a $55k ES have that a $55k G80 wouldn't have? I can't think of any. Remember Genesis cars are pretty much loaded. ES is not feature rich. $57k is an Advance package AWD G80 with panoramic roof, Lexicon audio,