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New M45 for 2005

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Old 09-08-04, 07:58 AM
  #106  
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Originally posted by ktiger
Wow, how soon do we forget. Was it that long ago that the BMW/Mercedes crowd laugh Lexus to scorn and belittled Lexus owners as if we were Ford Focus owners. We are doing the same thing to Infiniti that they were doing to us. Let's try to put our bias aside for a minute. In the past couple of years Infiniti has beaten Lexus in customer service and are nipping on our heals in reliability. These were Lexus' staples that got us in the door. Now it seems that Infiniti is taking the same approach Lexus took, pamper the people and they will come.

You talk about resale value as if BMW's, Mercedes, and Lexus resale values are something special. Let's take a 2001 M5 which cost $80,000+, today you can buy them for under $40,000. That's $40,000 in three years! Mercedes E55, $85,000+, today you can buy them for under $40,000; another $40,000+ drop after three years. Oh let's not forget our beloved GS430, $55,000+, go to autotrader.com and buy one for under $28,000.

Sure Infiniti's resale value used to fall faster than all of the rest but that's not the case with the G35's and the FX's. I don't think it will be the case on any of their future models. The only difference now is the others have a lot higher plateau to fall from.

I personally think the M45 is a beautiful car inside and out. Many of us would have jumped through hoops had this car been the next GS.
Things have changed a lot since 1989. The luxury market now contains about 13 automakers ranging from entry level to ultra luxury- Acura, Audi, Cadillac, Jaguar, Mercedes, Infiniti, BMW, Porsche, Lincoln, Lexus, Saab, Volvo and even VW. These automakers compete in classes ranging from $25,000 on up to well over $100,000, competition for new customers is becoming more fierce, the standards that customers expect rises almost every time a new model is released, and it's really BRAND IMAGE that seperates them from eachother.

When you weed out the companies that don't offer models over $40K (excluding SUVs) or a flagship sedan, Lincoln, Volvo, Acura, and Saab drop out of the race. Infiniti doesn't have anything they can successfully sell over the G35, so figuratively speaking, Infiniti could be dropped here as well. Interestingly enough, many magazines DO refer to Infiniti as a near luxury automaker, and DO classify them as a "Third Tier" automaker, a class that is also occupied by Acura, Saab, Lincoln and Volvo.

In my opinion, Lexus still hasn't reached the level of prestige that Jaguar, Mercedes and BMW enjoy. For me, Audi, Cadillac and Lexus fill that "almost there" category, and within the next few years Lexus will introduce a new LS, one or two $100,000 products, Cadillac is about to unleash the new STS as well as a $100,000 sedan, and Audi has plans for a supercoupe and sports car. Those sorts of products do push your brand over the line and into the "ultra luxury" category. Having prestigeous products for your existing entry level (IS,ES for Lexus) or mid level (GS) customers, as well as the general public, to aspire towards, makes your brand more desireable as a whole.

Where am I going with this? Infiniti doesn't have anything for their G35 customers to aspire towards, and I think the new M will be the first step in establishing such an "icon". Having owners of other luxury brands desire your product isn't going to happen over night, but once the M35s and M45s start appearing on the street, they start to advertise them, people start talking about them, Infiniti's going to gain more respect. I think that the new M is the right product for the job, it looks great inside and out, big engines, quality, customer service, and it has a successful model below it which means that many of those return G35 customers will be assuaged into the Infiniti showroom again, for another Infiniti product, likely the M35 or M45. Resale directly relates back to the desireability of a product. People have to want and desire an automobile to be willing to go out and buy one. The same holds true in the used market. Until the G35, Infiniti hasn't ever had such a car. Infiniti also doesn't have a respectable image to buy into. I'm not saying they're bad cars or they aren't worthy, but it just doesn't have the same aura as buying a Mercedes, BMW, or even Lexus. You really can't walk out of an Infiniti showroom and think, "Man...I just got the car that everyone else wants." Until recently. Like I've been saying all along, brand image is everything. It makes people want your products in the first place, it makes people want to continue to buy your products, it makes other companies and the general public respect you, and ALL of those things affect resale value. Infiniti is making all the necessary steps to get there, but right now they aren't cutting it. The next G is around the corner, the M has 5-7 solid years ahead of it, there will be a new Q45, and the FX and QX are selling well enough. The G has been that very first, and most critical step. Most importantly, it's been a SUCCESSFUL first step. It's going to take 5-7 years for the M to really catch on and for people to think, "That G35 was nice but man, Infiniti is moving up. This M35/45 is a serious car."

I don't try to knock Infiniti in any of my posts because Aside from Lexus and Cadillac, they're one of my favorite luxury automakers. It is however a rather moot point to say that the M is on the same level as the GS when talking about the "full package". Could the 2006 M be MORE car than the 2006 GS? Of course! There's more to the car buying experience now, especially in the luxury class, aside from the product. I don't think people are just going to be willing to throw down $50K on ANY product with a weak brand image. The Phaeton is a good example. Really though, Infiniti is doing the best that they can for RIGHT NOW, but that's still not on an equal level as Lexus.

-Michael-
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Old 09-08-04, 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by MPLexus301
These automakers compete in classes ranging from $25,000 on up to well over $100,000, competition for new customers is becoming more fierce, the standards that customers expect rises almost every time a new model is released, and it's really BRAND IMAGE that seperates them from eachother.

When you weed out the companies that don't offer models over $40K (excluding SUVs) or a flagship sedan, Lincoln, Volvo, Acura, and Saab drop out of the race. Infiniti doesn't have anything they can successfully sell over the G35, so figuratively speaking, Infiniti could be dropped here as well. Interestingly enough, many magazines DO refer to Infiniti as a near luxury automaker, and DO classify them as a "Third Tier" automaker, a class that is also occupied by Acura, Saab, Lincoln and Volvo.

-Michael-
The Towcar can be easily classified as Lincoln's flagship sedan and stickers at well over $40,000.

Though I understand the distinction you are attempting to illustrate.

M.
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Old 09-08-04, 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by whipimpin
The Towcar can be easily classified as Lincoln's flagship sedan and stickers at well over $40,000.

Though I understand the distinction you are attempting to illustrate.

M.
I was thinking the same thing. All of these car co's have cars over 40k with the exception of Volvo. I know that wasn't your primary point but they do none-the-less. The Saab 9-5 is just above 40k and so is the RL. None of them have a car over 50k though.
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Old 09-08-04, 08:28 AM
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Yea, but are any of them competitive? Not really...
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Old 09-08-04, 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by ktiger
Wow, how soon do we forget. Was it that long ago that the BMW/Mercedes crowd laugh Lexus to scorn and belittled Lexus owners as if we were Ford Focus owners. We are doing the same thing to Infiniti that they were doing to us. Let's try to put our bias aside for a minute. In the past couple of years Infiniti has beaten Lexus in customer service and are nipping on our heals in reliability. These were Lexus' staples that got us in the door. Now it seems that Infiniti is taking the same approach Lexus took, pamper the people and they will come.

You talk about resale value as if BMW's, Mercedes, and Lexus resale values are something special. Let's take a 2001 M5 which cost $80,000+, today you can buy them for under $40,000. That's $40,000 in three years! Mercedes E55, $85,000+, today you can buy them for under $40,000; another $40,000+ drop after three years. Oh let's not forget our beloved GS430, $55,000+, go to autotrader.com and buy one for under $28,000.

Sure Infiniti's resale value used to fall faster than all of the rest but that's not the case with the G35's and the FX's. I don't think it will be the case on any of their future models. The only difference now is the others have a lot higher plateau to fall from.

I personally think the M45 is a beautiful car inside and out. Many of us would have jumped through hoops had this car been the next GS.
No one has said Infiniti it not on the rise. No one has said Infiniti has a couple new products. But Infiniti as a whole gives people no image or perception of luxury. Infiniti is not NEW. They have been around the same as Lexus, 15 years. In that time, Lexus has firmly established itself and BMW and Benz are still BMW and Benz.
The FACT is, Infiniti't BEST CAR CURRENTLY is their entry level G35. The FX is another stand out car but not a best seller. Yes the M35/45 is a great step. And what is over that car?
The overlooked, undersold, average, underapreciated FLAGSHIP, Q45 which is not even included in top luxury comparisons in auto publications.

No one is bashing the new M35/45 at all. We honestly think it's fantastic inside and out. What we are saying and what some of you simply don't understand in the luxury market, people don't dump 50-60k in cars that are missing prestige. Silly, yes but such is life and badge hounds.
The reason 525s sell like hotcakes and 60k E320s sell. PRESTIGE. The badges of SUCCESS. People want that. Lexus not equals= Success.
People can barely spell Infiniti right.

It's a funny example but you can EASILY TELL what cars= success and are desirable. Watch T.V. Take MTV for example. Check out what cars Celebrities drive
Benz, BMW, Lexus. (outside the exotics like RR, Bentley, Lambo, Ferrari)
 
Old 09-08-04, 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by AE MAX
These are some of my thoughts. After reading several recent threads on Infiiniti vs. Lexus, I've come up with the following conclusions. First, I think the new M45 is a great looking car, except for the tails. But then there's always going to be something about a car you don't like. Is it worth 50k, I think so. Will it hold it's value as well as a Bimmer or Benz, probably not.

Then someone stated that the growing number of Lexus sales will not hurt it's reputation, and I disagree. A few short years ago, owning a Lexus was "like" owning Bimmer or Benz as far as layman's view of car-class hierarchy. Meaning that when you told someone you drove a Lexus they probably would have the same reaction if you told them you drove a Bimmer. Today I don't think it's the same. With so many Lexus's going for under 30 grand in the used market, these are great buys. This also leads to a younger buyer, an increase in modifications (many of which are very ricey), and a nonchalant attitude towards the vehicle itself. Hell, I have more friends with Lexus's than any other brand, and I'm 25. This, I think, brings down the exclusivity of the brand. I'm not saying that Lexus doesn't make great cars, they do. What I'm saying is that within the next few years, if Lexus doesn't bring out something to compete with the European super sedans (ie 745/60) in price, I think the margin that separates Lexus from MB/BMW with grow larger and Lexus will be more likely associated with Acura/Infiniti as far as class goes. Especially with the surge that Infiniti is making.

I know this is a hard topic for you guys to be objective on because most of you are Lexus owners, but you also have to realize that you are enthusiasts who look at a car much more meticulously than the average buyer. Keeping that in mind, with the tremendous popularity of the G35, I think the M will do great among the average buyers and steal many buyers who will be considering the GS.
3 years ago Lexus actually decided to kill volume. They were afraid of what you said. The fact was NO LUXURY CAR MAKER sold like Lexus before. This volume was unheard of 15 years ago.

But the thing is Lexus is highly desirable. People don't buy Lexus b/c it's the cheapest. People buy Lexus b/c it offers some of the best products. And clearly since they are selling 250k plus cars for the past 4 years, people have no issues with it.
People give us THIS GARBAGE "I don't want a car everyone has". Simply means no one else wants your car. In BUSINESS, if your selling items this expensive, you want to sell as many as possible. That means $$$$$$$ profit. Serious profit. I will post a great speech by Lexus GM Danny Clements that explains the RESEARCH Lexus has done.
Clearly they know their stuff.
 
Old 09-08-04, 09:13 AM
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Danny Clements Speech at Morgan Stanley Global Automotive Conference

Good afternoon.
Our thanks to all of you for being here, and to Morgan Stanley for this fine forum.
It is our first opportunity to bring Lexus to this group, except for the times when we were here with our cousins from Toyota.

Please refer to our cautionary statement before we begin this afternoon's presentation.

We'd like to use these few minutes to talk about three topics...
* The luxury vehicle market, and our take on it today...
* How changes in the market revise the conventional wisdom about luxury purchases...
* And how Lexus is preparing to meet the challenges that these changes bring about.

Last year, luxury automakers built and sold 1.8 million vehicles, accounting for 11 percent of the U.S. new-vehicle market.
That share, by the way, has grown from around eight percent of the total in just the past five years.

More on that in a minute.
Last year, Lexus sold almost 260,000 vehicles in the United States, registering the Number One market share at 14.0 percent.
It was our fourth consecutive year of leadership in the luxury vehicle segment. This year, first quarter sales totaled 64,970...up an impressive 25 percent from the same period a year ago.
In 2004, luxury vehicle sales should grow to 1.9 million units, or about 11.4 percent of the estimated total of 16.9 million U.S. light-vehicle sales.
Lexus aims to account for sales in excess of 270,000 while maintaining our market share.

All of you know well how crowded and competitive the luxury vehicle market has become.
When Lexus introduced the LS 400 back in late 1989, it competed with 40 vehicles in the luxury market.
Today, there are 70.
The reasons aren't hard to figure out if you look at the demographics.
The Federal Reserve report on changes in U.S. Family Finances shows that median and mean family income come to a peak in the 45-54 year age group.

And the people who were born between 1946 and 1964 - all 78 million of them - are today between 40 and 58.
In fact, another American turns 50 every eight seconds, landing right in the middle of that peak-earning group.
What's more, the Boomers are the first generation to have gone to college on a large scale.
And when you relate peak income to education, you find that families led by earners with college degrees have incomes twice those of families that are not.
So, we have a massive population of comparatively well educated people...at just the right age...
right at the peak of their lifetime earning potential.
That's a tempting market for makers of luxury products of all kinds - and...for makers of luxury motor vehicles...it's irresistible.

Americans in the so-called "middle class luxury" category - those with annual incomes of $100,000 or more - have become a fast-growing group.
According to the Census Bureau, this group accounted for 13.8 percent of all U.S. households in 2001, up from nine percent just ten years earlier.
That gives us a total of 15.1 million households in the United States with total annual income over $100,000.
Another factor is the amount of money American families have left to spend on discretionary purchases when their household expenses are paid.
We're told that the average family of four spends 21 percent less on clothes, 22 percent less on food, and 44 percent less on appliances, after inflation, than it did a generation ago.
And mortgage payments that consumed nearly a third of household income in 1980...and about one-fourth in 1990...have fallen to about 18 percent of monthly household income today.

Thank you, Chairman Greenspan.
Still another factor is the ratio of a car's cost to a family's income.
Today, an average-priced new car is more affordable than its been in 24 years...
Costing the equivalent of under 20 weeks of median family income.

So, more Americans in their peak earning years...generally better educated, as a group...bringing home more money...and spending less of it on necessities...with more to apply to car purchases.
That's a winning formula.
It means more and more families can move up into the luxury and near-luxury vehicle segments of the car buying population.

Now, what about this huge market?
What's the latest on luxury car buyers?
And how have they changed?

Well, we've recently concluded an extensive two-year study of the changing luxury market in an effort to forward the Lexus Brand Strategy.
We studied spending habits of affluent people, and of people in that "middle-class luxury" segment.
We looked at purchases of all kinds of luxury goods.
We examined the habits, the interests, the needs, the desires, even the values of people who bought our cars, and of those who did not.

What we learned from our studies was that Americans' notions about luxury have changed a great deal.
When Lexus was launched in the late 1980s, luxury in this country was all about possessions.
It was about accumulations of high-ticket assets of all kinds.

It was about pride of ownership...ownership for its own sake, often unrelated to the utility or performance of the possessions.
Remember "He who dies with the most toys wins"?

Then the luxury market entered a phase where experiences became more important.
It wasn't just about possessions, but also about how purchases enriched your life.
Luxury consumers started looking at high-ticket activities that included extreme sports in some extremely remote places.
Mount McKinley wasn't high enough, and it isn't remote enough...so let's send postcards from the top of K2 instead.
And luxury skiing meant hela-skiing in the back country of a nation on the other side of the world.

During this period, our lives became busier and busier, and time became more scarce.
So luxury consumers started looking for ways to not only save time, but to savor time.
These trends have created a new view of luxury.
It is understated and less formal.
It is oriented less to possessions, more to high-quality uses of time.
In place of conspicuous consumption is the new notion of consumption of experiences.
It is oriented to a pursuit of those things that help people savor time -- travel time, relaxation time -- that's the real luxury today.
People are looking at things that make life easier or more manageable so there is more time to enjoy one's life.

Consider, for example, that commuters in one-third of our nation's largest cities spend an average
of more than 40 hours a year - a full work week - sitting in gridlocked traffic with their engines running.
And if one cannot escape that situation, surely there must be a way to make that time more tolerable, if not pleasant.

When we asked our owners, "What does Lexus mean to you?" and "How does Lexus fit into your life?"
They told us that Lexus respects their time with things like...Mobile service...service pick-up and delivery...complimentary car washes...Lexus Luxury lounges where you can relax...or conduct business...and the most problem-free vehicles in the industry.

So when you consider Lexus in the context of this new view of luxury, it seems as though the stars are perfectly aligned for Lexus.

Our research confirms that consumers are looking for brands they can trust.
Lexus is rewarded by its customers with the highest loyalty rate of any nameplate - 53 percent.
Nevertheless, we resolved to study every aspect of our operations - every customer touch point - to see how we could further improve and meet these needs even better.

Our people talk about "seamless anticipation" of the customer's needs.
We brought our response to the customer's new view of luxury from three directions...product diversity...product design...and dealer operations.
Building a more diverse product lineup meant making additions of both new models and new features, new technology and new performance to our existing lineup.
Some competitors have been going down-market in the attempt to capture greater volume.
The Lexus way is to add features, improve performance, and generally try to anticipate what the customer will want next, remaining within our value ranges.
And that's why, tomorrow, we'll unwrap a concept vehicle that will give IS owners more choices
within this sport/luxury class.
This is our near-luxury entry point -- the market that will produce lifetime loyalists for the Lexus lineup.
Nearly 90 percent of IS buyers are first-time Lexus owners.
The median age of IS buyers is 29, the lowest in the segment, and well below the 39-year-old average of its nearest competitor.
In fact, the IS has done a better job of meeting the needs of young buyers than any other model in this segment.
Lexus IS competes directly with the BMW 3 series, which, with 15 variants accounts for 10,000 units per month...half that company's sales.
Today, IS has only 2 models.
While we never intended for IS to represent such a large percentage of our volume, clearly additional body configurations...such as a coupe and convertible would offers Lexus the opportunity to significantly increase today's volume of approximately 1,000 units per month.

As we look to grow our business in this highly competitive segment, we will introduce, at the New York auto show tomorrow, a new concept luxury-sports coupe...the LF-C.
The LF-C will attract young, sophisticated consumers seeking more than the traditional European sport sedan formula.

Another example of product diversification is in the Lexus SUV lineup - the most complete in the luxury market.
Today, Lexus dominates the segment with more than one in four luxury SUVs sold bearing the Lexus nameplate, and our RX 330 is the #1 luxury sport utility in the market.

Nearly every buyer can already find the features and price point he or she is seeking in our RX, GX and LX sport utilities.
Nevertheless, we will add a fourth SUV to our lineup this year...offering even more selection.

This past January in Detroit we announced the addition of the RX 400h, the world's first luxury hybrid vehicle.
This revolutionary SUV will be available late this year.
Powered by an all-new, advanced Hybrid Synergy Drive system, the 400h brings a performance dimension
to the traditional hybrid advantages of high mileage and low emissions.
The new RX will offer 20 percent more power, faster acceleration with better fuel consumption than the RX 330.
What's better than that?
The emissions rating.
The RX 400h will be rated a super ultra low emissions vehicle, one of the most stringent emissions ratings in the industry.
Drive this vehicle in nine round trips between New York and Los Angeles, and you'll produce less smog-forming emissions than in painting a room in your house with one gallon of paint.

We've done a lot of research on how affluent consumers will respond to this revolutionary vehicle.
We have found that it is not necessarily about being green...or more fuel-efficient...or even about the higher level of performance.
It's all about delivering a better total package to a very loyal customer who has come to trust the Lexus marque.

The new luxury hybrid, incidentally, will also introduce another industry first called Vehicle Dynamic Management.
VDM is an all-new system that combines Lexus vehicle stability control with an all-new electronic brake technology.
It is capable of anticipating impending vehicle stability problems and then automatically engaging a combination of braking and throttle control to help correct the situation.
It will be largely invisible to the driver...an example of the seamless anticipation of a customer's needs.

And here's another - our Adaptive Front Lighting System, or AFS, that turns the headlights in the direction of a turn making night driving safer.

A central controller calculates the optimum direction and swivels the right and left headlights independently so the driver can see further into a curve before turning in to it.

In addition to greater product diversity and technology, a second step in our evolution of the brand is a new, more passionate design direction.
Last year, at the New York Auto Show, we took the first step in this direction with the world premiere of the Lexus LF-X, a luxury crossover concept.
Last fall, at the Tokyo Motor Show, we unveiled the Lexus LF-S, a luxury sedan concept.
And this year in Detroit, we premiered the third-generation Lexus GS sport sedan.
Arriving early next year, the GS will be the first production vehicle from Lexus to benefit from this passionate new styling approach.
Combined with a Lexus first all-wheel-drive system, Vehicle Dynamic Management, and a back-up camera the next generation GS will offer us a significant opportunity for volume growth.

As I mentioned earlier, the concept vehicle that will be shown tomorrow will be the next in the LF-series of Lexus concept vehicles.

This new design direction is bold and striking, but simple and intriguing.
It is consistent with our findings about what consumers are looking for in luxury purchases.

The third initiative we've taken up as we meet the changing expectations of the luxury consumer has to do with dealer operations and their critical role in the Lexus ownership experience.

Thanks to an early and uncompromising adherence to what is called the Lexus Covenant, our dealers have become the industry benchmark for success.
They not only foster our brand's exceptionally high loyalty rate...they also produce a service retention rate that is unprecedented in the industry.

Nearly two-thirds of our cars that have been on the road for up to ten years return to Lexus dealers for service.
The tremendous owner loyalty and the high service retention rate combine to build dealer profitability.
Our 207 dealers are the most profitable in the automotive industry.
In addition to being the most profitable, Lexus dealers are also number one in retail sales per outlet.
What's more, the National Automotive Dealers Association annually ranks Lexus number one in every category, from sales and profit per store to relations with the manufacturer.

Just to give you an idea of how rapidly we are growing...
It took 10 years and 3 months to deliver our first one-millionth vehicle.
Yesterday in south Florida, we just sold our two-millionth vehicle - a North American-built RX 330.
This time, it only took us 4 years and 4 months.
And in about 3 years and 5 months, we estimate we'll sell our three-millionth Lexus.
And because our already large Units in Operation is growing quite rapidly, we've been working with our dealers to make certain they have the parts and service capability they need to keep the Lexus brand growing into the future.
Our business model is based on two fundamentals - building a perfect product and delivering the perfect customer experience, and for this, we have to rely on our dealers despite our tremendous growth.

We did not want to risk a rise in customer waiting times or a decline in customer satisfaction.

And our dealer partners have stepped up to this challenge, investing three-quarters of a billion dollars in new and expanded facilities in just the past 20 months.
We're training and re-training dealer technicians, service associates and sales associates to be sure our high standards of performance aren't compromised by the additional volume.
There is an intensity about this training that I know is not duplicated
in the industry.
We insist that our industry-leading customer experience be delivered at every touch point.
So everyone from the dealer principal and the salesperson to the receptionist and the valet is brought into a culture of advocacy, engagement and empowerment.

Through these initiatives, our dealers have been able to enjoy consistent, continuous and sustainable progress year after year.
Their people produce the kind of discretionary effort
that team members add when they feel a devotion to a winning cause.

Now, despite our rapid sales and Units In Operation growth, we're adding new dealerships very cautiously and slowly - only about four or five a year.

And, we use customer demand to stock them with vehicles, not the production-push method common to other nameplates.
This means our dealers average a 20- to 25-day supply of product in a luxury segment that averages 50 to 55 days.
That lowers inventory costs and makes it unnecessary to discount aging product.
All of this adds up to superior support and more profit for the dealer.
And when our dealers are profitable,
They're able to sustain a world-class customer experience.

Perhaps you've already seen our recognition of the consumer's new view of luxury expressed in our advertising.
You might recall that when we started, Lexus had just one point to make with the consumer...and that was product superiority.
We had to show that a Japanese car company could build a luxury vehicle equal to world-class competition.
So, we showed our quality with the following commercial we call Ball-bearing:

Today, more than a dozen years later, we're still moving the message of product quality with this most recent spot, called dimples:

In summary, the outlook is good for the auto industry's luxury segment, and especially good for Lexus.
* Consumer demographics are going our way, with lots of new consumers coming into the right age and income sectors for the next decade or more...
* Household income and the amounts available for discretionary purchases are at record levels...
* Luxury vehicles are continuing to increase their share of total light vehicle sales...
* We have an exciting new design direction and ample new product in development...
* Lexus quality is being maintained and even improved, as we ratchet up our volume...
* Our products are marketed and serviced by the industry's most effective, profitable and committed dealer organization, with substantial expansion under way...and...
* We have the full support of a strong, diverse and well capitalized corporate parent.

As we look forward to continued, controlled growth toward unit sales in the 300,000 range within the next five years, we are often asked what's driving our phenomenal success?
Some would say its great products.
But if you go to the New York Auto Show, you'll see all kinds of vehicles that are faster, more fuel efficient, more advanced and that most likely cost less than the model they're replacing.
So, obviously, Lexus does not have a monopoly on great products.
Some would say it's our dealers and what they do for the customer. And our dealers are great.

Well many of our dealers also have other franchises.
So, we don't have a monopoly on great dealers.
What we do have at Lexus is a 15-year commitment for delivering the best product and a perfect customer experience.

Many companies tout their superior products, but clearly, Americans are more skeptical these days than ever before...of everything from Martha Stewart to terrorism, corporate scandals to political scandals.
Our research confirms consumers are looking for brands they can trust.
Which is why our philosophy of building a perfect product and delivering the perfect customer experience is more relevant today than when we launched in 1989.
Lexus is a brand you can trust.
And that's what we believe is driving our growth.
Thanks, now, let's take time to respond to your questions...
 
Old 09-08-04, 09:19 AM
  #113  
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Originally posted by MPLexus301

I don't try to knock Infiniti in any of my posts because Aside from Lexus and Cadillac, they're one of my favorite luxury automakers. It is however a rather moot point to say that the M is on the same level as the GS when talking about the "full package". Could the 2006 M be MORE car than the 2006 GS? Of course! There's more to the car buying experience now, especially in the luxury class, aside from the product. I don't think people are just going to be willing to throw down $50K on ANY product with a weak brand image. The Phaeton is a good example. Really though, Infiniti is doing the best that they can for RIGHT NOW, but that's still not on an equal level as Lexus.

-Michael-
Well put Michael but remember the LS wasn't a $50,000 car when it first hit the market either. Let me speak very clearly here, I do not like the Benz. I believe it has the most over priced vehicles out there amongst all of the "Luxury" car builders. They servive soley off of their brand reputation. I am not saying that the Benz is junk but simply overpriced. The E55 is a great ride! As I stated before is the E55 really worth $95,000? No, but most people buy these types of cars (including most of us Lexus owners) to make a statement. Forget that the M45 is a better car than the 545i or the GS430, nobody will know that I paid a lot of money for the M45.

I love the design of the new M5 and I'm very disappointed in the design of the new GS. It looks like a big bubble.

Yet that's our culture today, sad but true. Just like the Cannon commercial, "...Image is everything...".
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Old 09-08-04, 09:24 AM
  #114  
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX

It's a funny example but you can EASILY TELL what cars= success and are desirable. Watch T.V. Take MTV for example. Check out what cars Celebrities drive
Benz, BMW, Lexus. (outside the exotics like RR, Bentley, Lambo, Ferrari)
My point is that Lexus barely fits into that category. I'm thinking to myself now, I've watched "Cribs" and "How I'm Living" a few times and I can't recall anybody having a Lexus. And I really hate the fact that I'm basing car status on celebrities, but I know there are some celebs who do own them and it may have been in a music video a time or two. I still think the people that buy Bimmers and Benzes are not quite the people that buy Lex's. I think people that buy Lex's are people who want a Bimmer or Benz but don't want to spend the $$$ or people who should be buying an Acura/Infiniti but are overextending themselves. I truly believe if a person had 80+ grand to spend on a sedan, he or she would try and see what kind of BMW or Benz they could get. But if that person only had say 50-60 grand, only then would Lexus become an option.
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Old 09-08-04, 09:45 AM
  #115  
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Bottom-Line is this people.........

YOU buy what YOU want! i.e. Style, Price, Performance, Statement, etc.

Sure most car enthusiasts (like us) listen and read reviews, but in the end......... I am spending my 'chips' where I want.

Last edited by TXSTYLE; 09-08-04 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 09-08-04, 09:51 AM
  #116  
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Originally posted by TXSTYLE
Bottom-Line is this people.........

YOU buy what YOU want! i.e. Style, Price, Performance, Statement, etc.

Sure most car enthusiasts (like us) listen and read reviews, but in the end......... I am spending my 'chips' where I want.
Well put, TXSTYLE. That's exactly why I will buy the 2005 BMW M5 when it hit the market. Lexus do not offer a car in this market. I must admit, simply because of the reliability factor only, that if Lexus did have a M5 competitor on the market I would buy it instead.
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Old 09-08-04, 10:00 AM
  #117  
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How many of you read the magazine, "Dupont Registry"? If you don't know about it, it's pretty much a big classified magazine of luxury vehicles. You'll be lucky to find an LS430 or SC430 in there. Lexus is a very good competitor in the near luxury ( i.e. Acura CL,G35, Audi A4, 3-series, CTS, I35, C230, 9-3, S60) and the mid-luxury (i.e. TL/ RL, A6, 5-series, Seville, the S-Type, CLK500, S80) but compared to the cars (really just Benzes) in the ultra-luxury category (i.e. the rest of MB, 745/760/645, XK8/XKR, A8, Phaeton, Q45) I think Lexus's affordability hurts them. The LS is about the same price as the Q45 which are both 20 grand less than the comparible MB S430. And as far as the enthusiast's category, well Lexus doesn't offer anything...yet. Maybe this is the real question...Does Lexus want to compete with MB/BMW? Or are they happy where they are? Perhaps this is their most profitable position. If they become too expensive, would people just say, "Ah, to hell with it, I'll just get a 7-series, that way my neighbors will definitely know I'm ballin'". But to compete with MB/BMW the prices will have to increase. A super LS will have to come out, a serious sports car will have to emerge, an AMG/M rival will be necessary. That's a lot to think about.
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Old 09-08-04, 10:15 AM
  #118  
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Sick your a wrong thinking Infiniti doesn't have the same image as Lexus because they do. When people ask what kind of car you have, or I have and you say Infiniti, they always go wow, very nice car. Isn't that a expensive car they ask next.

So anyways, Infiniti is right with Lexus. Its your BIASED attitude that you keep bringing up against Infiniti making people think you are against it, just like you did AGAIN in this post.
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Old 09-08-04, 10:17 AM
  #119  
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I do read the Dupont Registry regularly for the pics of exotic cars. That magazine was dominated by RR's, Bentleys , Ferrari's & other exotics. Even MB's, while regularly featured, are the down market cars in that magazine. I did saw a couple of SC430's , & a few SC400 with custom convertible conversions featured in that magazine before though.
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Old 09-08-04, 11:49 AM
  #120  
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Originally posted by G35_TX
Sick your a wrong thinking Infiniti doesn't have the same image as Lexus because they do. When people ask what kind of car you have, or I have and you say Infiniti, they always go wow, very nice car. Isn't that a expensive car they ask next.

So anyways, Infiniti is right with Lexus. Its your BIASED attitude that you keep bringing up against Infiniti making people think you are against it, just like you did AGAIN in this post.
I am sorry but if you think Infiniti remotely has the image of Lexus you must also think that Jenna Jameson can run for the presidency and won't be the girl UNDER the desk and she has a better chance of winning that Gary Coleman in a dunk contest wearing scuba gear.

Biased? Facts, let's look at the facts and maybe get them through you skill.
Lexus 260k cars sold a year
Infiniti, finally after 15 years, 100k cars sold.
Lexus highest quality maybe 10 of the last 11 years
Infiniti highest quality once
Lexus, awards and accolades galore.
Infiniti, I think 1 trophy in 15 years (G35 car of the year)
Lexus spelled Lexus
Infiniti spelled Infinity by 82% of the US population
Product lines ***Infiniti***
M30 discontinued, lucky if anyone even remembers what the hell it was, maybe a diaper holder
G20 discontinued brought back, discontinued
G35, outstanding cars PERIOD.
J30, discontinued, Lil John had a better chance of winning a 3rd grade spelling bee than this car winning anything.
I30, also ran in every comparison
I35, also ran in every comparison, guess what, discontinued
QX4, nice truck, never won anything. Remember the 176hp V-6 good for 0-60 times of teh ICE AGE? I do.
guess what, discontinued
QX56, it's big, was last in Motor Trend comparison though it's brand new. Quality issues galore. Built in MISSISSIPPI. Lot's of LUXURY there.
FX, nice sporty truck, selling well for an Infiniti, great competition
M45, gap placed. Selling as well as GEORGE BUSH t-shirts at an Iraqi Soccer game. Lost to the I-6 powered, GS 300, 5, E, A6 in Car and Driver. I get a lot of feeling of success here.
Q45, 15 year FLOP. Period. 1st gen was the best, do you remember the Q41? No? Well that is what the 2nd gen Q45 should have been called as they were the only MORONS in the industry to make a smaller engine. Still badged a Q45 though. The new Q45, NIssan and Infiniti's pride and joy, the flagship, the boss, the SYMBOLISIM of their best work.
Is probably gonna get discontinued. Not included in LS/S/7 comparisons, finishes BEHIND, the GS, A6, 5 in mid-size comparisons.

If Infiniti was Lexus EQUAL as you claim, we'd all be on FreshAlloy or somewhere and not Clublexus.

Product lines ***Lexus***
ES 250, no award winner, probably the least liked Lexus quickly redesigned into
ES 300, 10 best winner and turned into the entry level lux sales leader, ES 300 is now a symbol of the best luxury car for the price. Sells 50k or more a year every year no questions asked.
ES 330, extends the luxury, selling 60k cars a year. No matter what is looks like, still successful.
SC 300/400, simply one of the best looking cars of all time, 6 time 10 best winner, import car of the year, a huge success for Lexus. redesigned into the
SC 430, 5k orders for the car BEFORE IT WAS EVEN AT THE DEALER!!! Extends Lexus as a luxury leader. It is the HIGHEST RANKING QUALITY CAR ever for JD Power. This car has a DANG RETRACTABLE HARDTOP!
GS 300, sold well it's first year, Giugario styled, no V-8 option, 6 inches longer than the competition, never really sold well again. Redesigned into
GS 300/400/430 Car of the Year, 3 time ten best winner, we all know the accolades. Also briefly the fastest automatic sedan
IS 300, first SERIOUS effort to take on the 3, the ying to the ES yang. All sport, lacks acceleration but brought a new, young buyer Lexus never had before. Now the 4-door SUpra as people figured out how to turbo and S/C it's 2JZ. Redesign coming next year. IS Sportcross never a seller.
RX 300, 1st car based SUV, SUV of the year, best seller since 1999 in it's class. Redesigned into the
RX 330, selling better than ever, maybe 120k units this year. The standard for entry level SUV lux. with the
RX 400h, the 1st luxury Hybrid coming, Lexus leads again
GX 470, true truck based SUV, 2 time SUV of the year, selling great for Lexus
LX 450, the first upscale badged SUV to take on RR. Lexus couldn't make enough redesigned into
LX 470, either 1st or 2nd in EVERY SINGLE COMPARISON it has been in. Nuff said. Considered with RR the most refined SUV.
LS 400, took on the Germans and beat them, continues to evolve and win comparisons or place high. The meaning of luxury. Always a good seller, redesigned into the
LS 430, considered one of the finest luxury sedans on the road. Wins comparisons or places 2nd.

Lexus is also sold in Europe (where is is having a hard time). Infiniti is well, not sold there period.
 


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