SW17LS

This is true. People don't realize how the engine choice changes the entire feel of a vehicle. Great example is the E350 loaner I had from Mercedes, it was TERRIBLE. I hated it, but you drive an E450 spec'ed otherwise the same way and it just feels much better and more compelling. Weight over the front wheels of the larger engine will help the ride too.

The ES should just never have come with this engine.

Same is true of my Lexus dealer and MB is the same way, almost all of the loaners are SUVs.

Striker223

Got my 460 back. My god it's nice to drive this again! It feels like I have endless power on tap lol, didn't even hit 2000 rpm and it STILL moves better. The on ramp was actually fun vs annoying this time around, they did a good job as usual and it tracks amazing out to 130

Toys4RJill

‘How long were you able to drive 130 for?

Striker223

About 10 min or so, went to the usual loop to give it a drive. Did about 6 miles on 270 as well

Motorola

I suppose the one advantage of the 250 over the 350 is no torque steer, which was a big complaint for many people. It still boggles my mind that Lexus never designed the 350 to be equipped with AWD.

Striker223

It still has it, pulls to the right slightly if you send it full power. It's slight but 100% still there to a degree, nothing like the V6 sure but it's not a RWD bias at all and you can tell that easily. The system catches itself but you CAN feel it pull off right at the start

Bob04

I said it and I've driven both. And it wasn't just because its bigger inside. The few advantages the LS has over the ES aren't well executed, so I understand why people don't spend the extra money. The redesign made it more piggie size GS than LS. Not really a true flagship luxury car anymore.

SW17LS

I have also driven both many times, and that's just absurd. Like you I would not buy an LS500, but if I had to choose between the LS500 and an ES I would choose the LS500. I would also (and did) choose the GS over the ES every time because that additional quality and sophistication existed in the GS too. There is no circumstance where I would ever buy an ES at this point in my life.

LexFinally

Car and Driver agreed with you. They tested the ES 250 when it came out last year and, in a polite sort of way, they unloaded on it almost as much as you did. The money shot: It costs as much as two of the Camrys it structurally and behaviorally resembles.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

Motorola

That's the problem though, if Lexus customers truly cared about that extra bit of refinement and ability, the GS wouldn't be dead. I don't think anyone will argue that the LS isn't better than the ES, but for the money, it's easy to see why the ES has outlived the GS and continues to thrive while the LS continues to sink.

SW17LS

Most customers don't care, doesn't mean that a luxury car company should just throw in the towel. Plenty of consumers out there that do care.

Toys4RJill

Most customers don’t care about what?

SW17LS

Don't care about what makes a proper premium car better.

Toys4RJill

I see what you mean. There is a divide at a certain price point. Those buying a ES are not the same demographic as those buying a LS

SW17LS

You do have people though who insist that the ES is a better car than the LS and its just not in any way shape or form.