What can you do? LS is very nice car. The first prestige LS. The ES is an ES..like all other ES’s

 

It's slightly roomier than the LS, which was also a weakness of the GS to an even larger degree.

Quite frankly the relatively small cabin vs massive exterior was the biggest flaw of the LS500 and probably what scared off returning buyers.

 

Sure, but that doesnt mean that the alternative is the ES.

 

When I was buying my current GS, I told the finance lady that after several GS purchases from them, this would be my last due to the discontinuation of the GS. She said I was not to worry, the ES is now coming in AWD. LOL. No.

 

Yeah but how is the driving space? I don't really care about the back seats as long as mine is good, the extra seats are just a bonus to a good car.

 

These are intended to be chauffeur vehicles so back seat space is a huuuge priority, otherwise Lexus should have just marketed the LS500 as an 8 Series Competitor and not even bothered with the back seat executive features.

I've always thought the now-dead Cadillac CT6 was the closest to the LS500 in what it set out to do. But there's a reason it's dead.

 

No they aren't. All these cars are one tier below cars meant to be driven by someone else, both in our market and in their home markets. The Century, RR, Maybach, older Jag, certain Bentley cars and a few odd others are the only ones the owner is not intended to drive.

Even a maxed out 7/A8/S/LS is not on that level or really intended that way.....it's not the same if you have ever ridden in any of the real chauffeur class cars. I've experienced RR and a 57 personally and it redefines what you think of when you think luxury. The removal of the need to drive the car yourself VASTLY changes the priorities you have when evaluating a car.

The LS500 backseat can't even compare to the 460 yet alone the germans, it's so odd they bothered to even offer the executive pack in it considering the constraints. It's nice don't get me wrong.....but the car is better experienced driven not riding in regardless of the max spec rear seat. I usually have my wife drive me around a bit when I test drive a new car to see what a passenger would experience in both front and back seats. Normally I would rather be in the front seat unless it's a car more geared toward the owner to be in the back, this includes all my personal cars.

There have only been a few cars I truly preferred to passenger in the back seat.

 

That's objectively wrong. In Germany and other parts of Europe, they sell the SWB versions of these flagships that are indeed meant to be owner-driven. The LWB versions like what we receive in the U.S. market were originally designed to be chauffeur-driven, and that's how they're used in other world markets. See: every government and crime boss limousine of choice. Rolls Royces and Maybachs are now a step above that in luxury, but it wasn't that long ago when a Rolls Royce Silver Seraph was smaller inside than an S-Class.

The LS500 was a weird compromise that was the same length as a LWB flagship but had the interior volume of a midsize sedan. I don't know what Lexus was thinking.

 

LOL, that applies to almost every vehicle because you drive an S-class.

 

Its tight in the front too. The top of the roof is very low.

Thats actually not true at all. I would buy a G80, I would buy a 5 Series, I would buy many different crossovers and SUVs. What I have no desire to own is another transverse FWD car.

 

IMO the reason buyers don't return or lack of new buyers is because the LS is not worth the extra charge. I wouldn't buy one car this much knowing there's a very similar looking car. I believe I posted a picture of the two in side views. They look almost identical on paper. And on the road, I doubt how many can tell the difference. Even the fronts look very similar.
IMO the GS owners have different needs and look for different features. Space may be one but would be further down the list.

 

Yeah I never have desire to own an ES or RX or GLE. It has nothing to do with prices. I just don't feel fit in those vehicles even though they look/perform fine.

 

The problem with everything you said is that the front seat is better than the rear in all those cars. There are very few in where the rear seat is better in all respects, that's the mark of a car that is meant to be ridden in vs driven.

If you have never experienced it you wouldn't understand what I'm talking about

 

i said almost every car, not every car and as you've stated many times, a g80 blows away an es, as does a 5 series.

and certainly understand you not wanting a transverse fwd car. after driving lexus ls's and s-class for years, i wouldn't either! yes i know you drive the bus (pacifica) but obviously you don't want that as your main vehicle either.

 

What front seat has enough room for a recliner for your knees and TV screens to watch? You are biased because you enjoy driving, but most people being chauffeured couldn't care less. Angela Merkel has probably never sat in the front seat of the Audi A8 that drives her.

Go sit in any LWB sedan, there's a reason the rear controls the front nav, HVAC, etc. The rear passenger is the first priority of all these vehicles, that is a fact.