LexRuger

I've noticed a lot of Audi owners on the forums think their car is superior to other German brands.

It's pretty similar on all car forums.

Margate330

This is the only forum I am a mamber of but I imagine the other car forums are moderated like here if it's somewhat civil.
Had a family member years ago come live with me for a span while he was getting back on his feet and he would stay up all hours of the night hanging out in forums and chat rooms on yahoo.

These were unmoderated forums and I peeked over his shoulder a few times to see what he was speding so much time on and one look and I shook my head and said, why?....
Just a bunch of people with no life sittng there trolling ultra hard and spewing rage and insults, I never knew what he saw in those places or could understand why.

On the other hand, I imagine if someone joined the BWM forum just to talk smack about the brand they won't get a warm welcome and banned in 3........2........1......... haha

Striker223

I mean.....our cars ARE faster....

I jest, all of the brands have their good points and appeal. They all do certain things amazingly and you just need to pick what you want

Freds430

Everyone is different. Fast is at the bottom of my list. Styling is subjective. I would take the looks of an ES or RX over a 530 or X5 easily. At the top of my list is lowest in depreciation (BMW 3rd highest), highest in reliablilty (BMW 17th) , second lowest in maintenance in the luxury division (BMW highest), highest in service satisfaction (BMW 5th), and highest in loyalty (BMW 4th). BMW is not in the same league with any of these compared to Lexus. BMW or any other manufacturer would love to have one of these rankings let alone all five.

Striker223

I don't think so since they sell perfectly fine and are see in a much higher light than Lexus. Lexus is too conservative, their best efforts don't even have a chance against the mid tier German stuff when it comes to drivers

swajames

None of that really speaks to the car enthusiast IMO. You may as well be describing what people prioritize when they are shopping for a new refrigerator.

BMW has a strong enthusiast base because by and large the cars they make are better to drive than most of their competition. Sure, they are not necessarily as driver focused as they once were, but that's true of their competition too. We have an X5 and an RX, and the BMW is hands down the better car to drive, and the 5 Series is in a different league altogether from the ES. That's not to say the Lexus isn't a good car, my wife prefers the RX, but she doesn't remotely consider herself to be an enthusiast.

What would be great is if Lexus built cars that kept the Lexus traits but drove like a BMW. But by and large they don't.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

perfect.

the next lexus es:




if you get any sort of smile on your face or tingle in your body when a car handles well, sounds great, feels great, then you're going to find the driving experience of most BMW's better than Lexus. Lexus has obviously tried to 'up their game' with mixed results. they made the LS500 'too' sporty/firm initially and compromised on space, so it loses to the 7 series. they dropped the semi-sporty gs and tried adding 'f-sport' to fwd ES which is a) putting bad lipstick on a plain pig, and b) insulting to anyone's intelligence who likes actually sporty driving. the IS500 and LC500 are neat though because they've put a 'nostalgic' v8 in good looking cars with decent (if not spectacular) handling. i know my LC is a 'gt' type car and not a porsche, but i absolutely love the build quality, looks, materials, fun noises when pushing it, plus relatively calm/comfortable /smooth when cruising.

i do think lexus will 'rise' again with EVs, but we're probably a decade away.

swajames

Absolutely spot on.

And Lexus got it right with the LC, that's right up there with the best of them as a car which speaks to the enthusiast.

Freds430

Exactly why BMW is successful. There are many consumers out there that don't care as soon as they drive off the lot theiir BMW depreciates like a lead balloon. They don't care that they're paying the highest in maintenance cost. They don't care that the car is not reliable as long as it's cool looking. Lexus has wise consumers that don't care about superficial things.Thank goodness for BMW and Mercedes there will always be the consumer that puts status above all else.

Kense

Why do you think Lexus doesn’t depreciate when you drive it off the lot? All cars do? You’re very biased towards Lexus . Lexus is in that same “superficial” status with BMW and Mercedes. It’s not about looking cool, it’s a drivers car. Maintenance costs aren’t much more than Lexus unless you’re buying an M car which is a high performing car so it will cost more. Why didn’t you just get a Toyota then? Why a Lexus if you don’t care about “superficial things”?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

the majority of bmw drivers LEASE so they don't care about depreciation.

there are reasonable maintenance plans during leases plus warranty so again, no care.

saying it "is not reliable" is ridiculous. 5+ year old bmws driven like they were stolen will have issues though.

virtue-signaling much?

you already stated you love lexus because it says you're 'wise'. that's seeking 'status' in another way "hey look at me, i'm wise'.

Striker223

Material quality, extra body adhesives, better steel and more aluminum, more anti rust treatments, way nicer glass, way better paint, and much more NVH control. They are also able to be bought used for the same price so why even consider toyota?

LexBob2

Most brands/models are not as good OR as bad as some people make them out to be. The reality is somewhere in the middle in both cases. The good news is that there are choices for the consumer.

geko29

Except Mitsubishi. They add no value to the market.

mmarshall

Remember, though......projected depreciation is a big factor in determining what the lease-payments will be each month. All else equal, the more the projected depreciation will be, the higher the monthly payment.