geko29

If the laws of physics permitted a smooth-operating 1.8L NA V6 that made say, 225 hp, that would be more than sufficient for most people's casual driving, and would provide a nice experience in a small luxury car or CUV. What some of us are saying--myself included--is that such a thing cannot exist. It is WAY past the theoretical stoichiometric limits at atmospheric pressure. And the ~150hp or so that a modern iteration of such an engine would actually be capable of producing would provide a totally unsatisfactory driving experience, especially in a luxury vehicle. Part of the luxury experience is not having to wring the engine out to redline just to accelerate at a modest pace.

SW17LS

Well of course, but that comes back to the same issue. It’s stressful not having a car that can complete a passing maneuver you need it to complete.

I’ve done a lot of driving in the mountains and on highways in a wide variety of vehicles from a Prius to a VW Beetle to a Mercedes S560 and Lexus LS sedans to the ES to Jeep SUVs and Kia and Chrysler minivans. Big difference in confidence and comfort linked to power and power delivery. A car doesn’t have to have 450 HP to feel that way either. With good gearing, even a big car with 240-250 HP can feel plenty powerful.

Striker223

So what if you need to do so to avoid worse or the situation changes mid maneuver or the other car just flat out decides to be an *** and block you?

Toys4RJill

Brake pedal......

Striker223

Not always possible unless you want to cause a crash and get hit or hit someone.

AMIRZA786

This is exactly the case, modern Naturally aspirated engines have reached their limitations, and the only way to get more power out of them is either making them bigger (bigger displacement so they can push more air and fuel into the cylinders), or forcing more air and fuel into the cylinders, (Forced induction). Making them bigger displacement adds cost, weight and also eats into efficiency. The car will be too expensive (both cost of vehicle and fueling) for the average person. So the solution is to decrease displacement, add forced induction and tune for either efficiency or performance. Now you have a smaller engine that performs as well (maybe doesn't sound as good or is as smooth) as it's bigger counterparts, but it's more cost effective.

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding among some people that engine technology is being held back by some force (I won't name it), and if allowed to progress, you will have V8's putting out 600 plus HP and getting 40 mpg, and it will be affordable to the masses. That's just not the case, I'm sorry to say. As much as I love V6's and V8's, in order to get more power out of them, you have to either make them bigger (displacement), or you have to turbocharge them. In both cases, these engines cost a lot more than a turbocharged 2.0L making the same power

SW17LS

Sometimes speed can improve safety, a little burst of speed to get you out of a situation or away from a specific driver and make you much safer.

One of the things I like about my S560 is nobody can out-merge me, because I'm almost always the most powerful car around. When I come off the line, Im going to merge out in front and even at full throttle nobody can block me. Yes unfortunately I live in a place where when you put your blinker on people accelerate to keep you from being able to merge in front of them.

sm1ke

iTrader: (5)

Not so clear when you seem to be referencing two different examples at the same time. I'd suggest going back and reading your own posts but there's no point, I'll just move on. If I misinterpreted something incorrectly, sorry.

Striker223

It 100% is the case, if you don't have to tune for emissions you can easily get 40% more power. Engines that ignore emissions can exceed 1000HP easily but would never be allowed factory, if they are tuned for extreme MPG you can hit 60-70 but NOX gases will be off the charts by current standards due to the compression ratios needed.

Striker223

Exactly. You can't be blocked if your car can hit 120+ if you hammer it to the floor when the ramp starts, the rest of traffic simply "stops" and you can slide perfectly in if needed.

SW17LS

And sometimes thats a big safety issue. I have been in situations where I have run out of road because nobody will let me in and my car is not powerful enough to force my way in, then you have no room to accelerate and you're really hosed.

AMIRZA786

Emissions definitely have a large role

Toys4RJill

Then maybe the driver is going too fast. There is almost no circumstance that you could argue I needed to speed up and break the law vs following driver training such as brake and avoid.

LeX2K

Both engines have forged cranks and rods, coated pistons. 1MZ is a closed deck block 2GR open. 1MZ also weighs less. 1MZ is simply a smoother engine I have direct experience with both swapped in MR2's.
VVTi rattle is extremely common. 2GR also commonly has timing chain cover leak and is highly sensitive to oil pressure. Run it low and goodbye engine.
Total nonsense. I've driven both hard. 3VZ-FE sounds better than both and is smoother. How can that be? Newer is always better.

2GR makes way more power, 1MZ is better in almost every other way.

SW17LS

Its not about driving faster than the law allows, its about having the power to be able to move past someone in traffic.

Ive taken professional driving courses and this is what is taught in those courses. Defensive driving does not always mean passive driving.