Two years in, life with a Mercedes is a lot like life with a Lexus...just a little +$
#391
Lexus Fanatic
The reality is that when a car becomes more sophisticated, there is more to wear and break. For instance LS460s have a lot of problems with brake actuators. LS400s and LS430s don't. Why? They don't have electronic brake actuators. LS460s have issues with control arms wearing and requiring replacement...LS400 and LS430s don't. Why? They don't have multi-link front suspension.
Components that are designed for higher performance and precision often have shorter lifespans. As we have watched the LS become more similar to a Mercedes in design, its also become more similar to a Mercedes in terms of maintenance and reliability. Thats my point. Its not "okay", its just reality.
Here's a video from the Car Care Nut about multi-thousand dollar repairs to an LS430 and how horrendously complicated the smart key system is on that car. Sounds an awful lot like the CarWizard video Jill posted about that CL550:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yatKW2SGQG8&t=533s
Components that are designed for higher performance and precision often have shorter lifespans. As we have watched the LS become more similar to a Mercedes in design, its also become more similar to a Mercedes in terms of maintenance and reliability. Thats my point. Its not "okay", its just reality.
Here's a video from the Car Care Nut about multi-thousand dollar repairs to an LS430 and how horrendously complicated the smart key system is on that car. Sounds an awful lot like the CarWizard video Jill posted about that CL550:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yatKW2SGQG8&t=533s
Spoiler
#392
Just want to point out Mercedes's motto - it was "nothing but the best". That was the time when Engineers had a sway over all car manufacturing and design aspects. If you close the door of an earlier Mercedes - like my 1990 W126 chassis. it closes with a comforting "thud" - like it was carved from one solid block of steel. Do that to a newer Mercedes - it feels like any other car. The build quality just went downhill after Accountants took over.
Then came the Lexus LS400. It was cheaper and better than the Mercedes. I read somewhere that the LS400 engine is the only aircraft certified (whatever that means) automobile engine. Thereafter the downward spiral started for Mercedes. Their W140 chassis was so sophisticated that it was terrible when things went wrong. The evaporator core failed often and to R&R that cost a fortune and several hours of labor. The W220 had several issues with their self leveling suspension that they have aftermarket kits to convert to struts. The W221 had transmission issues...hope things are better with Mercedes products now - after all, I was a devoted fan of the Marquee for 2 decades or more. I have no interest in the newer models so I do not know the current status.
Many items and design of early Lexus were a copy of the W126 chassis. LS400 had several similar design features. They say that the Mercedes ML SUVs were a copy of the 99 to 03 RX. Look at the Rear quarter windows and the way the front hood opens all the way down the radiator - a very close match. But the ML's were junk. OTOH the RX300 was a resounding success.
Then came the Lexus LS400. It was cheaper and better than the Mercedes. I read somewhere that the LS400 engine is the only aircraft certified (whatever that means) automobile engine. Thereafter the downward spiral started for Mercedes. Their W140 chassis was so sophisticated that it was terrible when things went wrong. The evaporator core failed often and to R&R that cost a fortune and several hours of labor. The W220 had several issues with their self leveling suspension that they have aftermarket kits to convert to struts. The W221 had transmission issues...hope things are better with Mercedes products now - after all, I was a devoted fan of the Marquee for 2 decades or more. I have no interest in the newer models so I do not know the current status.
Many items and design of early Lexus were a copy of the W126 chassis. LS400 had several similar design features. They say that the Mercedes ML SUVs were a copy of the 99 to 03 RX. Look at the Rear quarter windows and the way the front hood opens all the way down the radiator - a very close match. But the ML's were junk. OTOH the RX300 was a resounding success.
#393
Lexus Champion
Absolutely! Thats why they went to the multi-link setup, its vastly superior. The tradeoff is more maintenance. Same with the braking system like you said.
If you want a truly sophisticated car you're gonna have to maintain it and repair it, thats the tradeoff. Like air suspensions, air suspensions MAKE a luxury car. Its night and day, but the tradeoff is they don't last and they cost a lot to repair/replace.
If you want a truly sophisticated car you're gonna have to maintain it and repair it, thats the tradeoff. Like air suspensions, air suspensions MAKE a luxury car. Its night and day, but the tradeoff is they don't last and they cost a lot to repair/replace.
Most also don't have their cars on tenders to make certain the battery is not under strain to save load on the alternator etc....and they don't have issues. I have only seen a few alternators go out across all forums vs the LSs needing them around 150-200k or less in harsher climates. Now the problem is if you DO need a new one it's about $1500 for the part alone lol! It is however needed considering all the items it's responsible for running in this class of car.
#394
Lexus Champion
The LC500 engine is still advanced, it was just STUPIDLY ahead of the rest when it came out. It took nearly 10 years for everyone else to catch up to that thing but Lexus stopped trying so we never got to see their TTV8 or the LSF/LCF, if they have made those cars I would never have went German but that's a fine example how they lost a customer.
#395
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Just want to point out Mercedes's motto - it was "nothing but the best". That was the time when Engineers had a sway over all car manufacturing and design aspects. If you close the door of an earlier Mercedes - like my 1990 W126 chassis. it closes with a comforting "thud" - like it was carved from one solid block of steel. Do that to a newer Mercedes - it feels like any other car. The build quality just went downhill after Accountants took over.
Then came the Lexus LS400. It was cheaper and better than the Mercedes. I read somewhere that the LS400 engine is the only aircraft certified (whatever that means) automobile engine. Thereafter the downward spiral started for Mercedes. Their W140 chassis was so sophisticated that it was terrible when things went wrong. The evaporator core failed often and to R&R that cost a fortune and several hours of labor. The W220 had several issues with their self leveling suspension that they have aftermarket kits to convert to struts. The W221 had transmission issues...hope things are better with Mercedes products now - after all, I was a devoted fan of the Marquee for 2 decades or more. I have no interest in the newer models so I do not know the current status.
Many items and design of early Lexus were a copy of the W126 chassis. LS400 had several similar design features. They say that the Mercedes ML SUVs were a copy of the 99 to 03 RX. Look at the Rear quarter windows and the way the front hood opens all the way down the radiator - a very close match. But the ML's were junk. OTOH the RX300 was a resounding success.
Then came the Lexus LS400. It was cheaper and better than the Mercedes. I read somewhere that the LS400 engine is the only aircraft certified (whatever that means) automobile engine. Thereafter the downward spiral started for Mercedes. Their W140 chassis was so sophisticated that it was terrible when things went wrong. The evaporator core failed often and to R&R that cost a fortune and several hours of labor. The W220 had several issues with their self leveling suspension that they have aftermarket kits to convert to struts. The W221 had transmission issues...hope things are better with Mercedes products now - after all, I was a devoted fan of the Marquee for 2 decades or more. I have no interest in the newer models so I do not know the current status.
Many items and design of early Lexus were a copy of the W126 chassis. LS400 had several similar design features. They say that the Mercedes ML SUVs were a copy of the 99 to 03 RX. Look at the Rear quarter windows and the way the front hood opens all the way down the radiator - a very close match. But the ML's were junk. OTOH the RX300 was a resounding success.
They make air suspension replacement to coil kits for the LS too, by the way. Air suspension failures on the LS are very common. You never see air suspension failures on the W222 S Class…
The original ML was nothing like the RX, it was a body on frame SUV. ML was also a huge success.
#396
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Watch this video and tell me this is more reliable than an old S Class:
#397
Lexus Fanatic
Barely any computers. Just one ECU that primarily controls the CIS (Continuous Injection System by Bosch) - several European manufacturers used it including Volvo. Injection is by controlling pressure to the injectors - not any electrical pulse.
This Mercedes V8 uses a timing chain.
While talking about the vehicles I own, my 2001 Chrysler Town and Country with 210K miles has been ultra reliable too. So I am not a member of the "American Cars are no good" club. Never owned a Ford though. I hear Fords are equally good. Owned a GM (Buick Skylark) and it was OK. Somehow, by fate, I always ended up with a Chrysler. But I am fastidious about maintaining my cars.
This Mercedes V8 uses a timing chain.
While talking about the vehicles I own, my 2001 Chrysler Town and Country with 210K miles has been ultra reliable too. So I am not a member of the "American Cars are no good" club. Never owned a Ford though. I hear Fords are equally good. Owned a GM (Buick Skylark) and it was OK. Somehow, by fate, I always ended up with a Chrysler. But I am fastidious about maintaining my cars.
Gorgeous interior… look at that wood 🪵
‘yes sir
Spoiler
#398
Watch this video and tell me this is more reliable than an old S Class:
https://youtu.be/ZvTJ9GcKV40
https://youtu.be/ZvTJ9GcKV40
If you want to compare the same age Merc S class, look here:
#399
Lexus Fanatic
Yes, those 2007-2012 LS460's are not the most reliable compared to the RX and ES, however I will take my chances with well known mechanical fixes for them, rather than electrical and mechanical gremlins with the S Class which are hard to diagnose and fix which translate to more cost and more time at the shops.
If you want to compare the same age Merc S class, look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg9Fy0RlOMk
If you want to compare the same age Merc S class, look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg9Fy0RlOMk
#400
Lead Lap
Many items and design of early Lexus were a copy of the W126 chassis. LS400 had several similar design features. They say that the Mercedes ML SUVs were a copy of the 99 to 03 RX. Look at the Rear quarter windows and the way the front hood opens all the way down the radiator - a very close match. But the ML's were junk. OTOH the RX300 was a resounding success.
1.The first generation ML came out before the RX. The first ML rolled off the assembly line in February 1997 while the first Harrier did the same in December 1997. The Lexus version, the RX, didn’t come until 1998. Mercedes also showed a concept with these design features before Toyota/Lexus did. Design freeze was in 1994 while the RX design wasn’t frozen until 1995. Pretty hard to copy design features when you were ahead on the product development cycle don’t you think?
2. The first gen ML was was body on frame SUV. And yes quality and reliability were bad. Lexus ended up with a winning formula that continues today with the RX but guess who eventually was able to command higher prices for their midsize SUV, with some variants costing over $100k? Wasn’t Lexus.
Last edited by TangoRed; 01-07-23 at 05:50 AM.
#401
Lexus Champion
Watch this video and tell me this is more reliable than an old S Class:
https://youtu.be/ZvTJ9GcKV40
https://youtu.be/ZvTJ9GcKV40
#402
Lexus Fanatic
Lexus already had the Lexus LX450 in 96 and then LX470 in 1998. RX is the most popular and successful core over hands down, because of the lower price.
#403
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yes, those 2007-2012 LS460's are not the most reliable compared to the RX and ES, however I will take my chances with well known mechanical fixes for them, rather than electrical and mechanical gremlins with the S Class which are hard to diagnose and fix which translate to more cost and more time at the shops.
If you want to compare the same age Merc S class, look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg9Fy0RlOMk
If you want to compare the same age Merc S class, look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg9Fy0RlOMk
You miss my point, my point is that the LS is not like an ES either, the comparison is degrees of potential problems...an LS460 isn't going to be trouble free.
#404
Lead Lap
Whats your point? Those aren’t midsize SUVs and the LX didn’t cross the $100k threshold until a few years ago. Lexus doesn’t play on the super high end very well, which has been discussed ad nauseam. I was never disputing the RX’s continued and well deserved popularity which I mentioned in my earlier post.
Last edited by TangoRed; 01-07-23 at 09:19 AM.
#405
Lexus Fanatic
Thats a W221, I know generationally thats the comparison but I'm talking about the 222 that I have which has shown that its nothing like that. The 13-17 LS460s are no different, they have all the same systems and underlying potential issues. There are several 13-17 460s in the 460 forum right now with valley plate leaks, people have already had air suspension failures, mine and others have had brake actuator failures.
r.
r.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 01-07-23 at 09:27 AM.