Toys4RJill

And like my 4Runner...ancient. Your engine dates back to the IS-F. Just has a lot of updates, like my 4.0L. And no turbo..and no cylinder shut down ​​​​​​​
I don't believe it


hugo2648

Just want to point out Mercedes's motto - it was "nothing but the best". That was the time when Engineers had a sway over all car manufacturing and design aspects. If you close the door of an earlier Mercedes - like my 1990 W126 chassis. it closes with a comforting "thud" - like it was carved from one solid block of steel. Do that to a newer Mercedes - it feels like any other car. The build quality just went downhill after Accountants took over.

Then came the Lexus LS400. It was cheaper and better than the Mercedes. I read somewhere that the LS400 engine is the only aircraft certified (whatever that means) automobile engine. Thereafter the downward spiral started for Mercedes. Their W140 chassis was so sophisticated that it was terrible when things went wrong. The evaporator core failed often and to R&R that cost a fortune and several hours of labor. The W220 had several issues with their self leveling suspension that they have aftermarket kits to convert to struts. The W221 had transmission issues...hope things are better with Mercedes products now - after all, I was a devoted fan of the Marquee for 2 decades or more. I have no interest in the newer models so I do not know the current status.

Many items and design of early Lexus were a copy of the W126 chassis. LS400 had several similar design features. They say that the Mercedes ML SUVs were a copy of the 99 to 03 RX. Look at the Rear quarter windows and the way the front hood opens all the way down the radiator - a very close match. But the ML's were junk. OTOH the RX300 was a resounding success.

Striker223

Funny enough it's actually a wash for me, since the German cars have air as standard they are so much better supported it actually would not cost me any extra to replace the air struts on my D4s vs the coil systems on my LSs. The only thing that may be more expensive is the actual compressor/valve block unit but those are not problematic on the D4s and rarely fail with no pattern of failures. Same thing with the struts, you see way more LSs with air strut and compressor issues vs the Germans since it's STILL an optional system. Both my cars are on all original air hardware and MANY guys have over 150k on all original stuff and they do not store inside like I do nor do they obsessively make sure the system is not loosing pressure and opening the drivers door once a week if it's sitting to make sure it can adjust for any ambient temp/humidity issues.

Most also don't have their cars on tenders to make certain the battery is not under strain to save load on the alternator etc....and they don't have issues. I have only seen a few alternators go out across all forums vs the LSs needing them around 150-200k or less in harsher climates. Now the problem is if you DO need a new one it's about $1500 for the part alone lol! It is however needed considering all the items it's responsible for running in this class of car.

Striker223

The LC500 engine is still advanced, it was just STUPIDLY ahead of the rest when it came out. It took nearly 10 years for everyone else to catch up to that thing but Lexus stopped trying so we never got to see their TTV8 or the LSF/LCF, if they have made those cars I would never have went German but that's a fine example how they lost a customer.

SW17LS

All of that is true, but Lexus has stopped supporting upper end cars like the LS, and the Germans have stepped up their game and come back from those low times, which leaves us where we are today…doors on my S560 close great. Obviously not as solid as yours, but we’re in another era today and they can’t make sheet metal that thick and solid nowadays.

They make air suspension replacement to coil kits for the LS too, by the way. Air suspension failures on the LS are very common. You never see air suspension failures on the W222 S Class…

The original ML was nothing like the RX, it was a body on frame SUV. ML was also a huge success.

SW17LS

Watch this video and tell me this is more reliable than an old S Class:

Toys4RJill

Interesting stuff. I was wondering because your model first started production in 1979, so what might have been added over the years such as computers and electronics. So fascinating. Also, wondering what debuted in 1979 that was state of the art. How do you do for parts? Easy to get? OEM? Or aftermarket..





Gorgeous interior… look at that wood 🪵
‘yes sir


703

Yes, those 2007-2012 LS460's are not the most reliable compared to the RX and ES, however I will take my chances with well known mechanical fixes for them, rather than electrical and mechanical gremlins with the S Class which are hard to diagnose and fix which translate to more cost and more time at the shops.

If you want to compare the same age Merc S class, look here:

Toys4RJill

Never considered or knew that the pano roof had 3 motors whereas the moonroof just on.

TangoRed

Just some historical points here:

1.The first generation ML came out before the RX. The first ML rolled off the assembly line in February 1997 while the first Harrier did the same in December 1997. The Lexus version, the RX, didn’t come until 1998. Mercedes also showed a concept with these design features before Toyota/Lexus did. Design freeze was in 1994 while the RX design wasn’t frozen until 1995. Pretty hard to copy design features when you were ahead on the product development cycle don’t you think?

2. The first gen ML was was body on frame SUV. And yes quality and reliability were bad. Lexus ended up with a winning formula that continues today with the RX but guess who eventually was able to command higher prices for their midsize SUV, with some variants costing over $100k? Wasn’t Lexus.

Striker223

It is, between the same year range 460 and W221 I would pick the USF40/41 every time. These cars only have 3 true trouble areas vs randomly failing major systems on the 221

Toys4RJill

Lexus already had the Lexus LX450 in 96 and then LX470 in 1998. RX is the most popular and successful core over hands down, because of the lower price.

SW17LS

Thats a W221, I know generationally thats the comparison but I'm talking about the 222 that I have which has shown that its nothing like that. The 13-17 LS460s are no different, they have all the same systems and underlying potential issues. There are several 13-17 460s in the 460 forum right now with valley plate leaks, people have already had air suspension failures, mine and others have had brake actuator failures.

You miss my point, my point is that the LS is not like an ES either, the comparison is degrees of potential problems...an LS460 isn't going to be trouble free.

I'm not talking about the 221s I'm talking about the 222s. I would choose an LS460 over a 221 too every time, on top of that I just like it better.

TangoRed

Whats your point? Those aren’t midsize SUVs and the LX didn’t cross the $100k threshold until a few years ago. Lexus doesn’t play on the super high end very well, which has been discussed ad nauseam. I was never disputing the RX’s continued and well deserved popularity which I mentioned in my earlier post.

Toys4RJill

Weird to compare the ML to the RX. Two different segments, they never really competed

Lexus LS460 will have less things to wrong compared to the comparable Mercedes at the time. LS has never been on the same level as the Germans.