Striker223

If we are talking W222 vs XF40 then sure but only if the W222 has the 4.0 engine. The others have too many issues that are engine out and not preventable, the 4.0 can be addressed in car much more easily.

Valley plate leak is a good example of an "acceptable" type of failure since it's not going to rapidly kill the engine and can be fixed relatively easily. The M278 eats chains, blows turbos, has leak issues, engine block to piston ring wear issues on the earlier ones until they switched to nanoglide but it remains to be seen if it works long term. There is also the typical valve guide wear and DI carbon issues that most of these engines have problems with.

Meanwhile the 1UR has a valley plate and valve cover leak issue at high miles or age and sometimes has the rings lock up. That locked ring issue is easy to fix if you know how to do so and stop using oil that causes the problem in the first place.

Striker223

A 222 and XF40 both with air suspension and as close as possible options will be a wash in most cases. However the 222 will drive much better/faster than the LS can so it wins that comparison plus it will be CHEAPER to buy and source parts for. You will have about 4-6k extra with the Mercedes to sort everything out vs a same year/mileage LS since they have a premium price due to higher reliability due to most lacking air suspension.

SW17LS

They absolutely competed and came out in the same segment, they were just different takes on what that "luxury crossover" would be. People at the time cross shopped the ML and RX for sure. Now of course the GLE is a lot more expensive than the RX, but people still cross shop them because they are midsized SUVs from Mercedes and Lexus.

Thats just not true, if anything 13-17 LS460s have more typical issues than 14-17 W222 S550s. Mercedes' air suspension is more reliable in these generations, Mercedes doesn't have the issue with valley plate coolant leaks or brake actuators and Mercedes suspension components have shown they are more robust. The M278 V8 in the S550 also doesn't have a history of oil use at high mileage like the 1UR engine in the LS460 does

Then when you compare the 18-20 LS500 vs the 18-20 S560 there are also more common issues with the LS than the S Class.

Toys4RJill

Mercedes at that time is still far more advanced. Lexus never competed on the complexity of a Mercedes. There really is no wash. Mercedes was still ahead.

TangoRed

The person I quoted brought them up. Further, the ML320 and RX were very much direct competitors at launch and were priced very close to each other. The 1998 RX300 AWD was priced at $33,445 and the 1998 ML320 (AWD standard) at $34,545.

SW17LS

But the LS has progressively marched towards the complexity of the Mercedes, the LS460 is much more complex than the LS400 and LS430, and the LS500 is even more complex than the LS460, getting to the point where its basically just as complex as an S Class or other german car.

SW17LS

Even the M278, I wouldn't say they "eat chains" or "blow turbos", I havent seen any evidence of that being a widespread issue on the W222 forums. All W222s were made after Mercedes went to nanoglide. Also don't forget the 1UR also has issues with hesitation that likely comes from timing chain guide wear or chain stretch.

My point is not to say either car is "unreliable", its that they are more similar than people understand. For a consumer even if the valley plate leak is "acceptable", its going to cost a lot of money to deal with. From a "dollars out of your pocket" perspective, an LS460 is not an inexpensive vehicle to maintain at all, and like for the owner of the car in the Car Care Nut video I posted it can become overwhelming.

Toys4RJill

The Lexus Ls is getting more complex. But does the 460 have a turbo? S class has 4matic where Lexus went without it on the LS460 for 4-5 years? LS460 lacked a pano roof. Lexus lacked the command type system in the 460 for a while





Just look at the worldwide S class engine options for 2007

and to go back further. To show how far behind Lexus LS430 was. Looks at the 2002 S class options. Multiple V8 choices

SW17LS

Thats exactly my point, the LS has gotten more complex as time has gone on, and that has led to them being a lot more like a Mercedes or other German car when it comes to repairing and maintaining them. People act like having an LS460 or LS500 is like driving a Camry from a repair and maintenance standpoint and that is absolutely wrong

Toys4RJill

But Mercedes has gone further more complex with the S class. The mild hybrid system across all models demonstrates that. LS400,430 and 460 should be easier to maintain compared to a comparable Mercedes

SW17LS

The LS400/LS430 and LS460 are totally different. The LS460 is orders of magnitude more complex than the LS400 and LS430. An LS400 or LS430 will be easier to maintain than a comparable Mercedes, but not really the LS460. The LS500 is more complex still with a multi-chambered air suspension and twin turbo'ed engine.

My point is, if you are comfortable with an LS460 or LS500, the stretch to an S Class from those from a complexity and maintenance standpoint isn't that much.

The 48V mild hybrid, assuming it works well (which is a question mark) will actually reduce mechanical complexity...no starter, no belts, no alternator, no charging system, electronic turbos etc.

Toys4RJill

I agree too. From maintenance. But a LS460 is still less complex compared to a S550/560 when it comes to repairs.

SW17LS

Thats not really true, mechanically the only area where the S Class is more complex is the turbocharged engine. Thats the whole point of what I have been saying.

Striker223

How you worked on both? The LS is easier to work on than the W221 and non-4.0 W222s by a substantial margin due to the packaging.

SW17LS

Thats true of RWD LS460s, but less true of AWD LS460s