Two years in, life with a Mercedes is a lot like life with a Lexus...just a little +$
#406
Lexus Champion
Thats a W221, I know generationally thats the comparison but I'm talking about the 222 that I have which has shown that its nothing like that. The 13-17 LS460s are no different, they have all the same systems and underlying potential issues. There are several 13-17 460s in the 460 forum right now with valley plate leaks, people have already had air suspension failures, mine and others have had brake actuator failures.
You miss my point, my point is that the LS is not like an ES either, the comparison is degrees of potential problems...an LS460 isn't going to be trouble free.
I'm not talking about the 221s I'm talking about the 222s. I would choose an LS460 over a 221 too every time, on top of that I just like it better.
You miss my point, my point is that the LS is not like an ES either, the comparison is degrees of potential problems...an LS460 isn't going to be trouble free.
I'm not talking about the 221s I'm talking about the 222s. I would choose an LS460 over a 221 too every time, on top of that I just like it better.
Valley plate leak is a good example of an "acceptable" type of failure since it's not going to rapidly kill the engine and can be fixed relatively easily. The M278 eats chains, blows turbos, has leak issues, engine block to piston ring wear issues on the earlier ones until they switched to nanoglide but it remains to be seen if it works long term. There is also the typical valve guide wear and DI carbon issues that most of these engines have problems with.
Meanwhile the 1UR has a valley plate and valve cover leak issue at high miles or age and sometimes has the rings lock up. That locked ring issue is easy to fix if you know how to do so and stop using oil that causes the problem in the first place.
Last edited by Striker223; 01-07-23 at 09:40 AM.
#407
Lexus Champion
A 222 and XF40 both with air suspension and as close as possible options will be a wash in most cases. However the 222 will drive much better/faster than the LS can so it wins that comparison plus it will be CHEAPER to buy and source parts for. You will have about 4-6k extra with the Mercedes to sort everything out vs a same year/mileage LS since they have a premium price due to higher reliability due to most lacking air suspension.
#408
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Lexus LS460 will have less things to wrong compared to the comparable Mercedes at the time. LS has never been on the same level as the Germans.
Then when you compare the 18-20 LS500 vs the 18-20 S560 there are also more common issues with the LS than the S Class.
Last edited by SW17LS; 01-07-23 at 09:38 AM.
#409
Lexus Fanatic
A 222 and XF40 both with air suspension and as close as possible options will be a wash in most cases. However the 222 will drive much better/faster than the LS can so it wins that comparison plus it will be CHEAPER to buy and source parts for. You will have about 4-6k extra with the Mercedes to sort everything out vs a same year/mileage LS since they have a premium price due to higher reliability due to most lacking air suspension.
#410
Lead Lap
#411
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
But the LS has progressively marched towards the complexity of the Mercedes, the LS460 is much more complex than the LS400 and LS430, and the LS500 is even more complex than the LS460, getting to the point where its basically just as complex as an S Class or other german car.
#412
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
If we are talking W222 vs XF40 then sure but only if the W222 has the 4.0 engine. The others have too many issues that are engine out and not preventable, the 4.0 can be addressed in car much more easily.
Valley plate leak is a good example of an "acceptable" type of failure since it's not going to rapidly kill the engine and can be fixed relatively easily. The M278 eats chains, blows turbos, has leak issues, engine block to piston ring wear issues on the earlier ones until they switched to nanoglide but it remains to be seen if it works long term. There is also the typical valve guide wear and DI carbon issues that most of these engines have problems with.
Meanwhile the 1UR has a valley plate and valve cover leak issue at high miles or age and sometimes has the rings lock up. That locked ring issue is easy to fix if you know how to do so and stop using oil that causes the problem in the first place.
Valley plate leak is a good example of an "acceptable" type of failure since it's not going to rapidly kill the engine and can be fixed relatively easily. The M278 eats chains, blows turbos, has leak issues, engine block to piston ring wear issues on the earlier ones until they switched to nanoglide but it remains to be seen if it works long term. There is also the typical valve guide wear and DI carbon issues that most of these engines have problems with.
Meanwhile the 1UR has a valley plate and valve cover leak issue at high miles or age and sometimes has the rings lock up. That locked ring issue is easy to fix if you know how to do so and stop using oil that causes the problem in the first place.
My point is not to say either car is "unreliable", its that they are more similar than people understand. For a consumer even if the valley plate leak is "acceptable", its going to cost a lot of money to deal with. From a "dollars out of your pocket" perspective, an LS460 is not an inexpensive vehicle to maintain at all, and like for the owner of the car in the Car Care Nut video I posted it can become overwhelming.
#413
Lexus Fanatic
But the LS has progressively marched towards the complexity of the Mercedes, the LS460 is much more complex than the LS400 and LS430, and the LS500 is even more complex than the LS460, getting to the point where its basically just as complex as an S Class or other german car.
Just look at the worldwide S class engine options for 2007
and to go back further. To show how far behind Lexus LS430 was. Looks at the 2002 S class options. Multiple V8 choices
#414
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thats exactly my point, the LS has gotten more complex as time has gone on, and that has led to them being a lot more like a Mercedes or other German car when it comes to repairing and maintaining them. People act like having an LS460 or LS500 is like driving a Camry from a repair and maintenance standpoint and that is absolutely wrong
#415
Lexus Fanatic
Thats exactly my point, the LS has gotten more complex as time has gone on, and that has led to them being a lot more like a Mercedes or other German car when it comes to repairing and maintaining them. People act like having an LS460 or LS500 is like driving a Camry from a repair and maintenance standpoint and that is absolutely wrong
#416
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
My point is, if you are comfortable with an LS460 or LS500, the stretch to an S Class from those from a complexity and maintenance standpoint isn't that much.
The 48V mild hybrid, assuming it works well (which is a question mark) will actually reduce mechanical complexity...no starter, no belts, no alternator, no charging system, electronic turbos etc.
#417
Lexus Fanatic
I agree too. From maintenance. But a LS460 is still less complex compared to a S550/560 when it comes to repairs.
#418
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thats not really true, mechanically the only area where the S Class is more complex is the turbocharged engine. Thats the whole point of what I have been saying.