AMIRZA786

There's nothing like a Mercedes S class. I've only owned one Mercedes in my life (a 1976 280S) and that thing was solid built and a great cruiser. I had a cousin who moved here from Germany and he would import the 6.9L Sedans from Germany to sell here, and those things were just marvels to drive. Unfortunately he lost a ton of money because he had to make them emissions legal and crash retrofits. After his third car he stopped importing them. This was around 1986

SW17LS

But thats the thing, they don't flock to Lexus. At a much lower price point Lexus competes well, but they have struggled their whole existence to compete at the upper end. Mercedes outsells Lexus in the US and so does BMW, and their average transaction prices are a lot higher.

If you are conscious about cost, Lexus has a lot of appeal, but a lot of luxury consumers are not that conscious about cost, and to them its not a factor. Quite frankly, I just spent $3,000 on a desk chair. Its all relative.

Perhaps not if all you care about is the cost of repairs and maintenance, thats not me. I care about having the best car that I can get in any given category, and I have that. Yes it costs more but its better. Full stop. As a car from a performance, technology, quality and design perspective nothing Lexus makes outside of the LC is even close.

There are a lot of people who really care a lot about value and limiting costs for things, and some people who make a lot of money are like that, for them Lexus is a great option. There are also a lot of people who don't worry about stuff like that and want the best car, and the Germans have it all over Lexus there. What I miss was Lexus making a car that was a car that competed with the Germans and yet also was well made and reasonable to maintain.

My point in this thread is, if people want to branch out and try a German car, don't be afraid and do it. Yes they cost more, but this concept that they are broken down all the time or that everything is absurdly expensive is just not true largely.

Toys4RJill

Lexus would not exist today if their prices were on par with the Germans. They can’t come in those prices. People do flock to Lexus, because they’re cheaper to acquire, the last longer, and they’re cheaper to maintain and repair.
For sure. People should try it. I agree

I do have some word of mouth about Mercedes S class, GLK and BMW and it’s not as rosy as my word of mouth experiences about Lexus. But sure…go German if that is what someone wants. I just know that out of warranty is not as nice as Lexus based on my brothers 3 German cars and my friends S class. My sister did like her 3 series…but that was a lease and she returned and went cheaper Toyota

SW17LS

But at the end of the day Lexus doesn't make anything anymore that competes with the S Class. So, if you want the reliability of a Lexus you have to accept a car that is not competitive in size, ride, powertrain, technology or refinement. Thats true in every segment, if you want a Lexus alternative you have to accept a vehicle that just isn't on the same level. If you truly want the best car, you have to compromise the "security" of Lexus or you have to accept a car that is not of the same caliber. A lot of buyers don't understand that or care about it, but if you do you need to try a german car.

And remember, the LS500 is not going to be as long term reliable as previous LS cars either, and that goes for the LX600 too and all these new Lexus vehicles with turbos. You see that with the LS460, as the car gets more advanced and complex, issues and cost to repair goes up. Lexus isn't perfect either, I have owned several Lexus vehicles towards 200,000 miles and they have all had expensive things done to them as they age.

Toys4RJill

they never really have. Mercedes and BMW and Audis are in the 12 cylinder discussion, for 30+ year As well as the turbo and bi turbo discussion. Lexus is a bargain brand verse the Germans. The only thing super cool, was the LX and GX models, but now the LX has gone to smaller six. The whole point of Lexus is that it doesn’t cost as much as a German car.

I totally agree, if you want the best, you have to go, German, not necessarily for body on frame or crossover. But for the big sedans, absolutely. Convertibles 100%, coupes 100% German. Anything performance, it must be German.

SW17LS

Yeah they have, I've been shopping in this segment for 20 years. While its true that at the upper end the Germans had more options the LS always compared very well to the German cars in a more normal configuration. The LS400 felt an entire generation ahead of the S Class at the time, despite being smaller. The LS430 for instance, there was really no reason to get an S Class except that it was a Mercedes. The LS430 was if not a better car, truly its peer. The LS460 could hold its own against the Germans too, it had the sophistication and the technology and the performance. Driving an LS460 and a W221 back to back, I legitimately preferred the LS in every way. Even at the end of its run, the LS460 could still hang with the Germans in ride and drive and refinement, tech and performance is where it really fell down. The W222 is the first S Class that I truly wanted over an LS. The LS500 is just totally an also-ran.

Crossovers too. If you look at a GLC, GLE, GLS, X3, X5, X7 these vehicles are on another planet compared to comparable Lexus vehicles (if they even exist, as Lexus has no answer for the GLS or X7)

Toys4RJill

for the price, Lexus makes very good cross overs with the RX and NX. They compete with Cadillac cross overs and Lincoln cross overs. They do not compare with the higher and German cross overs. But I like them better over the Germans. Genesis makes a better comparison for a German crossover.

well,with LS you couldn’t get a V12 could you? Or a choice of not one but two V-8’s? Or a short or long wheelbase?

SW17LS

Since I wasn't ever interested in a V12, that never moved the needle for me. The vast majority of German luxury sedans were not sold as V12s. LS460 had an option of short or long wheelbase. Options being available that I can't afford or don't want to afford don't impact my purchase decisions and I venture to say they don't for most buyers.

I drove and owned these cars when they were new, the LS always compared. Yes of course it being cheaper has always been part of its appeal, but you were getting a car that was 95% as good for 70% of the cost. Now you're getting a car that's 70% as good for 70% of the cost and thats not a value.

Toys4RJill

how is it possible you can compare Lexus with one engine, to a Mercedes that had two or three engines at that time? The prices were completely different. Lexus is the same today with her new LS, it only compares to the S500.

SW17LS

Because I'm only going to choose one engine, and its going to be the one most similar to the car I'm comparing. For instance in 2004 I was looking at an S430 vs an LS430.

The LS500 doesn't even compare to the S500, thats the issue. Its smaller, nowhere near as refined, has nowhere near the same level of technology, nowhere near as nice riding or driving. If the LS500 truly competed with the S500 it would be much less of an issue. Thats why I don't have an issue with the G90 not having a V8, because it does compete with the S500 very well.

Toys4RJill

this sums up the Lexus LS 460

The Germans have always been ahead

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...ls460-verdict/


or

#5

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...parison-tests/

SW17LS

I just totally disagree with that, my LS460s were great cars and better than my S Class in multiple ways. The overall vehicle is not as good, but its closer than you would think.

Toys4RJill

just look at the performance of the Lexus versus a Mercedes in the comparison from car and driver. Look at the braking distances. They have the same horsepower ratings. Look at the performance times.

SW17LS

Those things don't interest me, I go by what my experience is when I drive a vehicle. I preferred the LS460 to the W221 S Class.

That comparison test makes a good point though...the LS was included in that test. Today when they do comparison tests of big flagship sedans they rarely include the LS. The gap between the LS and the big German sedans has never been wider.

situman

The most important thing is that you enjoy the car, regardless of brand or model or whatevers. If you buy a car based on maintenance costs but does not enjoy driving the car, it would have been a miserable 2 yr experience. Anyone that owns a $123k German should expect high maintenance costs and not complain about it or worry about gas mileage. And an extra $2,500 over 2 yrs is peanuts. I'm sure if you or anyone else paid closer attention to what you had spent on all yr, I'm sure you could find more than $2,500 in wasted money over 2 yrs. None of what I wrote are criticisms, just general statements.

Like my GX, I know tires will be expensive, brakes will wear out quicker and sucks down T-Rexes like they are a dime a dozen. It's all part of it and more importantly, I love driving the thing. Just trade offs. Although I had to say, the driver seat has this one pressure point that causes a pinching pain on my left butt cheeks, again just trade offs lol.