S55inPA

hey everyone,

is it me or is Infiniti catching up to Lexus.
it seems that they are being very aggresive with new introductions.
plus they are putting the right amount of hp in their cars.
any thoughts??

mooretorque

I agree except that I think they have taken a sidestep to (possibly?) avoid competing head on with Lexus. The product that they really emphasize (the FXs and the G35s) and with which they seem to be having the most success doesn't have any direct competition at this time from Lexus. Those that do (Q, M, I series) are still being slaughtered in sales and certainly don't reflect the current thinking at Infiniti................

But I'm all for it. Competition means better cars for us!!!

S55inPA

one more thought....
what is wrong with Lexus.....they have the tokyo motor show and don't show
any new upcoming production vehicles?????
this was the perfect time for them to show the new GS.
heck at lest Infinit put the new M45 out there for people to look at.
at can't understand the delay with the GS.

RNM GS3

S55inPA,

The Lexus LF-S concept at the auto show represents the type of styling that will be used on the new GS. The Nissan Fuga is also just a concept and not a production ready M45.

BTW I think the new hybrid engine technology will further separate Lexus from Infiniti, MB, and BMW as being the top luxury brand. Starting with the hybrid RX next year.

How does a 300+ hp with 40+mpg GS sound? Gotta have patience.

S55inPA

hey guys,

i just feel that the GS should have been replaced last year.
but since it wasn't we should at least be seeing some very
close to production vehicles. plus why not show the new GS
at the tokyo show??
MB put it's new CLS design out there for everyone to see.
what's the big secret with Lexus? can they be behind schedule
with the new GS?
even if the Fuga(m45) is not a ready for production it still gives the
auto enthusiast a pretty close glimpse at what the new M45 will look like.
Lexus has yet to release even a sketch that looks remotely close to a production
vehicle.
as for Lexus being the number 1 luxury maker....they not quite there yet.
until they start putting some serious horsepower in their vehicles and truly move
more upscale ie. S600 they will in my mind be 3rd or 4th.
when it comes to MB, BMW, Lexus, and Audi they're all great.
but MB and BMW are the only ones with V12 engines and truly high performance
luxury automobiles.
i think hybrids are great but in the end 500 horsepower or more is where Lexus really
need to be to compete with the big boys.

gs400998

Infiniti has more 'newer' production vehicles than Lexus in the US Market (ie M45, Q45, FX, G35). AWD G35 is coming later this year. I still see more Lexus than Infiniti in my area. Until Infiniti is approaching
Lexus sales in the market, Lexus probably won't change much?

Gabeshell

I agree that Lexus needs to build a vehicle with more hp. I don't agree that a certain amount of hp is required to be a luxury automobile. Sure, MB and BMW are luxury vehicles, but they still cannot compare to Lexus in long term reliablity or cost. MB and BMW can put all the technological gadgets they want in a car, but they just don't work in the end. That's why their cars are at the dealer more often. Simply put, the workmanship and materials are at least as high quality in a Lexus, as compared to MB and BMW and they are more reliable at a more affordable price.

J.P.

"plus they are putting the right amount of hp in their cars."


Doesn't the M with 340hp run Mid 6's and the Q low 6's? Our cars have LESS HP and put up better numbers ALWAYS, the new E500 has what 300HP and it still cannot take a GS.

When are people going to quit focusing on the little part of the puzzle, HP, it means NOTHING.

Gojirra99

S55inPA,

I, like many here would also like to see more powerful Lexus cars, but HP alone does not determine which is the top luxury brand, each have their own criteria based on their own preferences. What is certain is that Toyota/Lexus is the most successful car manufacturer right now financially by a wide margin. Turbo/Supercharging a car is old technology that anybody can do if they choose to, & Toyota has had a V12 in their home market for over a decade, and chose not to develop a version for their overseas market.They are taking the hybrid route to increase hp while retaining good fuel economy.You neglected to even mention Jaguar as one of your top luxury brands and yet they have had a V12 for ages.

dseag2

Well, said Gabeshell. I owned an '02 Audi A6 4.2, and 300HP did not make it a luxury car. It was fast and the fit/finish was impeccable, but the Audi service to back it up absolutely sucked. They were a bunch of morons. Owning the car was far from a luxury experience. IMHO, service after the sale is a big part of it, and that's where Lexus has it down.

With regard to Infiniti, there is no question they are producing exciting cars, but the quality still is not up to Lexus standards. I had a deposit on a G35 Coupe (a blast to drive) but decided to go with a GS3 SD instead. I've never been sorry. The GS3 SD is no tire burner, but it is well-balanced, with enough pickup and decent handling to make it fun while still luxurious... plus it beats Infiniti hands down in quality.

I'm certainly not slamming Infiniti. I also have an '03 QX4. Nice vehicle, but with just 11,000 miles on it the weather stripping is coming off around one of the passenger windows, one of the storage compartments is off its tracks, and rattles are coming from various places. Is it more fun to drive than my friend's RX300? Yeah, but not enough to put up with niggly quality issues.

For me, it's just not worth the trade off for additional performance, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way. While I'm sure Infiniti will continue to gain some degree of market share, I don't think Lexus will need to worry for a while. Just MHO.

mmarshall

No....definitely NOT. In fact, they are going the other way. So their cars have HP and torque....so what? Lots of cars have power. Ever since Renault took over Nissan (Infiniti's parent corporation) the fit-and-finish of Nissan and infiniti products has taken a nose dive. Yes, the 350Z, G35, Altima, Maxima, FX35/45, etc... appeal to some people, but look at the interiors and the paint jobs on these cars. Cheap, poor-quality plastics. Bland surfaces. Poor finish. Hardware pieces breaking right off. Their products have become a lot like like GM's lately. I am an auto consultant....it is part of my job to look at and rate cars.
infiniti does have ONE car left.....the I35....which still has Lexus-type fit-and-finish, but that may soon be dropped.
No, we Lexus people still drive the best cars in the world.

vraa

iTrader: (2)

Infiniti is catching up, to what, no one knows, but it sure is catching up.

Now for the intential question, catching up to Lexus? No, Lexus is aimed at a different market, the kind that wants a car mainly for Point A to Point B, reliably. Infiniti has taken a more "liberal" approach and kinda claimed that the car is Point B

whitelotus

Amen... being a previous Mercedes owner, I agree wholeheartedly. I just sold my '01 C320 sport and bought the GS3 instead. The Benz had a gorgeous design, but fit and finish just wasn't up to the same level as the Lexus. Mind you, it was $46K new and that's not even fully loaded... it was a little more fun to drive (5 less hp & same torque if I recall, but lighter curb weight and different gearing ratios so it was spunkier) but hey, I drive 100 miles a week, I'd rather have a comfortable ride with the bells and whistles for the same price! Besides, even though I had great after-sales service from my dealer, I was in once a month for both nuisance and serious mechanical problems (with only 19K miles on it!). I actually feel like the GS3 is a step UP from the Mercedes, being a "higher" class for the same price and it's actually in my driveway often enough to drive it. (Did love the Mercedes loaners... I've driven every car in their loaner fleet, tho...)

I don't know what to do with the IS300... considered it briefly, but I was very disappointed after test driving. Talk about having an identity crisis: it's a sports sedan, no it's a luxury sedan, no, it doesn't do either very well. At least with the G35 you know you're sacrificing a little luxury for a good reason: an extra 60 hp. And if power is the only thing important to you, then you get it in spades for a very affordable price tag.

It comes down to the fact that while on paper, all the luxury marques seem to be directly competing, but most of them are directed to different market segments. Some people that would say a Mercedes was far too extravagant, would then think nothing of dropping $70 grand on an LS, with the reliability history to justify it.

That said, I wouldn't kick a McClaren SLR out of the garage if it just magically showed up one day. Hell, I'd drive any new Mercedes that showed up in my garage, as long as someone else promises to cover the repair costs and gives me a Lexus to drive while it's in the shop.

LexusPride

Infiniti has always been right behind Lexus in overall satisfaction, and this includes quality. Just go over to the GX board to see the first year problems they're having. Yes, all first year models have SOME issues, but the ones that the GX are having, the amount and frequency, and the way they initially handled them ("all of them do that, it's normal" or " there's nothing we can do,really") are now forcing buybacks and new or former Lexus owners to question them overall. Do I need to question the rattles in our car, the GS?! No car is perfect, but even though ClubLexus represents a small percentage of the overall marketplace, even the automotive industry and magazines have quoted time and again that Lexus continues to go in it's own direction regardless of the rest of the industry. Of course sales continue to increase, but Lexus really only leads in one category--mid-size luxury SUV(RX330). Look at the MB S-class, they still sell like hotcakes, years into it's current lifecycle! Seven years without any real changes, to me seems a bit excessive as this gives people quite a bit of time to search for alternatives. And if their experience is good, as I assume most would be with Infiniti, based on their rating, then what's to keep someone from switching over entirely?

KKelly

Really? Then how does my 3800lb '91 M5 with 280ft lbs of torque and 320+hp pull on a GS400 despite 300+lbs of gear in my car. Revs and gearing, that's how. The same way the new M5 with only slighly more torque but an extra 100hp is going to be much faster than the previous model. The Corvette always had gobs of torque but did not become really fast (Z06) until they added the ability to rev to 7000rpm.