Confirmed, new 6th gen GM small block V8
01-22-23, 06:25 PM
#31
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
GM retook that crown, but yeah. As for reasons Toyota won't do it...... regulations etc. CAFE. EPA pressure.
I haven't looked into it deep enough but is the Tundra engine (Toyota 3.4tt) I assume beefed up for truck duty? That's good, but completely different from having a truck with an engine designed from the get go for truck duty.
I haven't looked into it deep enough but is the Tundra engine (Toyota 3.4tt) I assume beefed up for truck duty? That's good, but completely different from having a truck with an engine designed from the get go for truck duty.
01-22-23, 06:26 PM
#33
Lexus Champion
01-22-23, 06:29 PM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
01-22-23, 06:37 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
01-22-23, 06:39 PM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
01-22-23, 06:44 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
2019/2020 If I remember correctly, my original plan was to buy an LS430 to try it out and if I liked it then buy a V8 LS500 as my "real" car. I absolutely loved the 430 but that plan was derailed and I abandoned brand to Audi since they make what I want as far as powertrain even if I do not prefer their fit an finish/"style" if you will...I have said before and I'll say it again if I could get the Audi 4.0TT engine+ZF8 in the LS500 that would be the perfect car for me. I was very disappointed when I found out that the LS460 was the final "real" LS and that I would have to look elsewhere for my "real" flagship, issue for me was I still liked how Lexus did things so even after I had the 2015 I also got a LS460 so I could have both experiences on demand. Then I picked up my 12cyl.....
Turns out that the Germans CAN do fit and finish as well as Lexus but the cars will be in the 130k+ class lol! So for me the plan was supposed to be LS430---->NEW LS500 V8, what ended up happening was LS430--->A8 4.0--->LS460--->A8 W12 with the last two being the ones I will likely decide to keep.
Turns out that the Germans CAN do fit and finish as well as Lexus but the cars will be in the 130k+ class lol! So for me the plan was supposed to be LS430---->NEW LS500 V8, what ended up happening was LS430--->A8 4.0--->LS460--->A8 W12 with the last two being the ones I will likely decide to keep.
01-22-23, 07:38 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Thats the past. GM isn’t using this V8 for cars, only for trucks. Toyota doesn’t need a new V8, as much as we may want one.
01-22-23, 08:11 PM
#39
Japanese media reported the news three years ago. And since then it's been validated by the Tundra, LX, Land Cruiser, and all subsequent new Toyota trucks dropping their V8's in favor of turbo 6's, and the quiet cancellation of the LC-F with the TTV8.
Toyota has literally no reason to keep making V8's.
Toyota has literally no reason to keep making V8's.
01-22-23, 08:20 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
They absolutely do. The more expensive stuff they offer just doesn’t compete. Just look how Tundra just doesn’t cut it. I am really surprised to hear you say they don’t need a v8. LX absolutely needs one. Same with LS
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 01-22-23 at 08:44 PM.
01-22-23, 09:24 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
Look, I love V8's. I really love them, and I daily drive one. I drove 400 miles to get a truck with a V8 rather than an ecoboost because I wanted to get one while I could.
But the writing is on the wall. The 5.0 V8 is less than 25% of F-150's sold. Dodge is dropping the Hemi. GM will probably limit this new engine to trucks only. I assume they intend to go straight from the V8 to electrification at some point, whereas everybody else is giving smaller FI engines a go first.
Ford's had incredible success with a twin-turbo V6 in their trucks and SUV's for the last 12 years now. They tow better than the V8 and they have millions of happy owners. Toyota messing this up isn't because TTV6's don't work in trucks, it's because Toyota failed to make one that could compete. Ford's been shoving them in pickups, SUV's, police cruisers, vans, and even a couple sedans. They'd put one in the Mustang if it wouldn't get the executive team tarred and feathered.
It makes no sense for Toyota to spend development dollars on an engine that will shortly be out of compliance with CAFE regulations and which will never sell in volume. GM's V8 costs relatively little to keep evolving over the years and has had the sales volume to justify it(it's also the only redeeming quality that GM has going for them).
But the writing is on the wall. The 5.0 V8 is less than 25% of F-150's sold. Dodge is dropping the Hemi. GM will probably limit this new engine to trucks only. I assume they intend to go straight from the V8 to electrification at some point, whereas everybody else is giving smaller FI engines a go first.
Ford's had incredible success with a twin-turbo V6 in their trucks and SUV's for the last 12 years now. They tow better than the V8 and they have millions of happy owners. Toyota messing this up isn't because TTV6's don't work in trucks, it's because Toyota failed to make one that could compete. Ford's been shoving them in pickups, SUV's, police cruisers, vans, and even a couple sedans. They'd put one in the Mustang if it wouldn't get the executive team tarred and feathered.
It makes no sense for Toyota to spend development dollars on an engine that will shortly be out of compliance with CAFE regulations and which will never sell in volume. GM's V8 costs relatively little to keep evolving over the years and has had the sales volume to justify it(it's also the only redeeming quality that GM has going for them).
01-22-23, 10:52 PM
#42
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Look, I love V8's. I really love them, and I daily drive one. I drove 400 miles to get a truck with a V8 rather than an ecoboost because I wanted to get one while I could.
But the writing is on the wall. The 5.0 V8 is less than 25% of F-150's sold. Dodge is dropping the Hemi.
It makes no sense for Toyota to spend development dollars on an engine that will shortly be out of compliance with CAFE regulations and which will never sell in volume. GM's V8 costs relatively little to keep evolving over the years and has had the sales volume to justify it(it's also the only redeeming quality that GM has going for them).
But the writing is on the wall. The 5.0 V8 is less than 25% of F-150's sold. Dodge is dropping the Hemi.
It makes no sense for Toyota to spend development dollars on an engine that will shortly be out of compliance with CAFE regulations and which will never sell in volume. GM's V8 costs relatively little to keep evolving over the years and has had the sales volume to justify it(it's also the only redeeming quality that GM has going for them).
Tried and true like I said, I know a V8 lover like you needs no explanation.
Dodge is dropping the proven 2 valve Hemi to shove 500hpish into 3.0 liters, what could possibly go wrong??? The 6.4 is slower but not by much, I'd rather have more than double that displacement powering my truck rather than turbos. This engine will be a disaster reliability wise compared to the V8. Chrysler stuff is already the worst but the V8s are solid. It's rated 14 city and I bet that's being optimistic, and that's horrible mpg still.
It makes no sense for Toyota to spend development dollars on an engine that will shortly be out of compliance with CAFE regulations and which will never sell in volume. GM's V8 costs relatively little to keep evolving over the years and has had the sales volume to justify it(it's also the only redeeming quality that GM has going for them)
I would imagine a 4.0tt with 550ish hp if Toyota came through with it.
Unrelated to this specific post (but I was curious earlier), the 3.4tt was actually modified for truck duty, per Motor Trend:
-------This engine features an all-aluminum block, 3,445cc of displacement, a 85.5mm bore, and 100mm stroke. A chain-driven, dual-overhead cam design is utilized to actuate the engine's 32 valves (two intake and two exhaust per cylinder), and it is equipped with dual VVTi (Variable Valve Timing-intelligence) systems. Aluminum cylinder heads are engineered for maximum boost and reliability, utilizing a two-layer water jacket structure for maximum strength and cooling. The heads also have machined cross channels for even greater combustion chamber cooling.
Intake valve seats have been enhanced by way of advanced laser-applied low-profile powdered metal. And the exhaust valve shape has been optimized for enhanced cooling. Water jackets near the exhaust valves work to cool the spent combustion gases before they enter the turbochargers, and this is further enhanced by the integrated exhaust manifolds. An air-to-water intercooler is also employed to ensure that incoming charge air is as cool and dense as possible.------
01-23-23, 07:39 AM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
The lack of a V8 is not why Lexus doesn't compete with the more expensive stuff. The Tundra does great compared to what it is, its not supposed to get people to come over to Toyota from American trucks.
01-23-23, 11:32 AM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
The full-size American truck market has traditionally been the most difficult segment in the industry to crack. F-Series, Silverado, and Ram Owners are fiercely loyal almost to a tee...although the Ram has made some gains lately at the expense of the Silverado.
01-23-23, 12:50 PM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
My partner is getting ready to trade his Ram in on a Silverado, actually...