You don't need an electric vehicle with a long range
02-03-23, 06:05 AM
#31
Lead Lap
For me it’s the performance and the way it drives. Not having to get gas is also really really nice. As for the environment thing, that’s a joke, my firm hired an environmental scientist with a phd to speak to our group and he said ignoring the political stuff, it takes 10-11 years for the carbon footprint to produce an EV to match that of ICE. He also told us of the human rights atrocities in the Congo that no one seems to think about.
02-03-23, 06:36 AM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
Let’s just be honest a little about Tesla’s claimed range. I know my experience is anecdotal but I started at 325 miles of range yesterday and drove about 102 miles yesterday. I ended up last night with 114 miles of range left. It’s very cold here so that changes things a lot as does using sentry (about 30 miles of range to be conservative). Even my friend I was with this week that has a Model 3P said the claimed range was BS.
That is a good bit worse than claimed so I think we need to be a little more honest when we talk about day to day range instead of quoting the highest EPA rated range. We seem to do it with all cars here but it’s just a little disingenuous to quote that on a day to day basis. Also a little disappointing is when I get close to 100 miles of range left power drops off a fair amount although it’s still fast as heck. With the lesser Tesla models power falls off a lot quicker so that should be mentioned too.
That is a good bit worse than claimed so I think we need to be a little more honest when we talk about day to day range instead of quoting the highest EPA rated range. We seem to do it with all cars here but it’s just a little disingenuous to quote that on a day to day basis. Also a little disappointing is when I get close to 100 miles of range left power drops off a fair amount although it’s still fast as heck. With the lesser Tesla models power falls off a lot quicker so that should be mentioned too.
Well yeah I can buy what I want, but I still can be annoyed at people/tv/movements telling me what to do or trying to do so. I'm not going to be lectured by those people.
What if every time you turned on the TV you heard people/movements/politicians criticize EVs and say a V8 is the only way to go for a truck? Or any decent car for that matter like it used to be? And then poo poo EVs and list out all the shortcomings.
It would get on your nerves, no?
What if every time you turned on the TV you heard people/movements/politicians criticize EVs and say a V8 is the only way to go for a truck? Or any decent car for that matter like it used to be? And then poo poo EVs and list out all the shortcomings.
It would get on your nerves, no?
Not to sound like a **** or anything but our EV purchases have not once been about or been driven by the environment. For us it's all about the instant power, smoothness, lack of noise, cheap running costs, and ability to do all our refueling at home in our garage.
As someone who enjoys good handling and driving feel, the one thing that I really enjoy is how the chassis stiffness from the skateboard battery pack, 50/50 weight balance and low center of gravity combine to completely change how they go down the road and how they feel around corners and turns. It's fantastic. We have some freeway interchanges and exit ramps out here that have some crazy aggressive corners that can be taken with pretty good speed and our Model Y blows me away with how fast it can go around some of these while staying completely flat. It just wants to be pushed further and further. It's limits really surprise me. It would give a much lighter and smaller ICE car a run for its money.
I don't think we could ever go back to ICE, we're an EV only household from here out.
As someone who enjoys good handling and driving feel, the one thing that I really enjoy is how the chassis stiffness from the skateboard battery pack, 50/50 weight balance and low center of gravity combine to completely change how they go down the road and how they feel around corners and turns. It's fantastic. We have some freeway interchanges and exit ramps out here that have some crazy aggressive corners that can be taken with pretty good speed and our Model Y blows me away with how fast it can go around some of these while staying completely flat. It just wants to be pushed further and further. It's limits really surprise me. It would give a much lighter and smaller ICE car a run for its money.
I don't think we could ever go back to ICE, we're an EV only household from here out.
So it begs the question, why is the government pushing for full EVs for the environment when it seems a plug in hybrid would IMO net a better result for the environment. (in no way am I insinuating any conspiracy or bringing in politics). I am just thinking this wasn't thought completely through by the Government.
02-03-23, 06:49 AM
#33
Lexus Champion
ICEs aren't going anywhere anytime soon, GM's nearly $1B investment into V8s confirms that.
But yes, we are all free to buy whatever we want.
02-03-23, 07:03 AM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
It's not just TV. You and I differ politically --I think we are opposite-- so it may not annoy you. I like a lot of EVs, just not the ridiculous rationalizations said people on tv, internet, whatever, Motor Trend especially, comes up with to mask their very real shortcomings. Can't really say much more. Lieberman told me in an MT article I'm a hypocrite because I'm using a laptop with a battery. Disgusting, I can't believe that passes for writing.
ICEs aren't going anywhere anytime soon, GM's nearly $1B investment into V8s confirms that.
But yes, we are all free to buy whatever we want.
ICEs aren't going anywhere anytime soon, GM's nearly $1B investment into V8s confirms that.
But yes, we are all free to buy whatever we want.
I watch PLENTY of things that are very realistic about EVs...even from EV fans. I just don't see this whitewashing that you see when you look at what people are saying, and even if it were there I have too much going on in my own life to care...TFL has done tons of realistic EV content including with trucks, Out of Spec reviews is a big tech/EV guy but he posts long roadtrips where he is brutally honest about what traveling with one is like just to name a couple.
ICEs aren't disappearing immediately, but you will see more and more models will go EV only and that new GM engine is only going to be found in trucks.
02-03-23, 07:14 AM
#35
Intermediate
Not to sound like a **** or anything but our EV purchases have not once been about or been driven by the environment. For us it's all about the instant power, smoothness, lack of noise, cheap running costs, and ability to do all our refueling at home in our garage.
As someone who enjoys good handling and driving feel, the one thing that I really enjoy is how the chassis stiffness from the skateboard battery pack, 50/50 weight balance and low center of gravity combine to completely change how they go down the road and how they feel around corners and turns. It's fantastic. We have some freeway interchanges and exit ramps out here that have some crazy aggressive corners that can be taken with pretty good speed and our Model Y blows me away with how fast it can go around some of these while staying completely flat. It just wants to be pushed further and further. It's limits really surprise me. It would give a much lighter and smaller ICE car a run for its money.
I don't think we could ever go back to ICE, we're an EV only household from here out.
As someone who enjoys good handling and driving feel, the one thing that I really enjoy is how the chassis stiffness from the skateboard battery pack, 50/50 weight balance and low center of gravity combine to completely change how they go down the road and how they feel around corners and turns. It's fantastic. We have some freeway interchanges and exit ramps out here that have some crazy aggressive corners that can be taken with pretty good speed and our Model Y blows me away with how fast it can go around some of these while staying completely flat. It just wants to be pushed further and further. It's limits really surprise me. It would give a much lighter and smaller ICE car a run for its money.
I don't think we could ever go back to ICE, we're an EV only household from here out.
+Refill once a week, good to go. A full refill takes less than 5 minutes.
+Maintenance is minimal. An oil change takes less than 20 minutes(if DIY(5 minutes if you're good)))
- No need to plug in every night.
- No need to be afraid of range.
+Superior sophistication because its an ICE.
+Superior choices in style.
+More lively engine and fun to drive, even though it may be slower to accelerate.
The choice is crystal clear(to me)
Last edited by xGS350x; 02-03-23 at 07:54 AM.
02-03-23, 07:24 AM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
I gave the Model Y a go lol - adjusting the mirrors and almost everything else with the dumb rolling ***** on the steering wheel was exercise in frustration. The sun visors are literally thinner than cardboard. The fact there is no HUD and no gauges in front is a HUGE safety hazard.
There are massive shortcomings if you actually appreciate car design, build quality etc.
Also there is no way to cover the dumb panoramic roof. Sales rep said they sell a cover as an accessory but its not automatic. I rather not have the sunroof at all.
There are massive shortcomings if you actually appreciate car design, build quality etc.
Also there is no way to cover the dumb panoramic roof. Sales rep said they sell a cover as an accessory but its not automatic. I rather not have the sunroof at all.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 02-03-23 at 07:28 AM.
02-03-23, 07:39 AM
#40
Lead Lap
I gave the Model Y a go lol - adjusting the mirrors and almost everything else with the dumb rolling ***** on the steering wheel was exercise in frustration. The sun visors are literally thinner than cardboard. The fact there is no HUD and no gauges in front is a HUGE safety hazard.
There are massive shortcomings if you actually appreciate car design, build quality etc.
Also there is no way to cover the dumb panoramic roof. Sales rep said they sell a cover as an accessory but its not automatic. I rather not have the sunroof at all.
There are massive shortcomings if you actually appreciate car design, build quality etc.
Also there is no way to cover the dumb panoramic roof. Sales rep said they sell a cover as an accessory but its not automatic. I rather not have the sunroof at all.
02-03-23, 07:43 AM
#41
Lexus Champion
I think a lot of this is in your head. EVs are THE hot topic in the automotive world, so it stands to reason that a lot of the discourse in the industry is about them. When you read editorials you are reading people's opinions, if you don't want to read people's opinions, don't read editorials. I don't. Vehicle reviews are editorials, they are peoples subjective opinions. I just don't see all of these people out there "rationalizing" anything...who reads Motor Trend? If it makes you angry just stop reading it. Why do you care what Jonny Liberman thinks or says?! 99.9% of the people in the world have no idea who he is. You also have to understand that a magazine like MT is struggling to stay relevant in a world where they are dramatically less so than they once were.
I watch PLENTY of things that are very realistic about EVs...even from EV fans. I just don't see this whitewashing that you see when you look at what people are saying, and even if it were there I have too much going on in my own life to care...TFL has done tons of realistic EV content including with trucks, Out of Spec reviews is a big tech/EV guy but he posts long roadtrips where he is brutally honest about what traveling with one is like just to name a couple.
ICEs aren't disappearing immediately, but you will see more and more models will go EV only and that new GM engine is only going to be found in trucks.
I watch PLENTY of things that are very realistic about EVs...even from EV fans. I just don't see this whitewashing that you see when you look at what people are saying, and even if it were there I have too much going on in my own life to care...TFL has done tons of realistic EV content including with trucks, Out of Spec reviews is a big tech/EV guy but he posts long roadtrips where he is brutally honest about what traveling with one is like just to name a couple.
ICEs aren't disappearing immediately, but you will see more and more models will go EV only and that new GM engine is only going to be found in trucks.
Also this wasn’t an editorial, it was a regular road test with data.
It’s not an editorial like the beginning pages of old car and driver. Those I have no problem with. This was a road test. I’m allowed to not like this drastic change from minimal politics in my car mags to sometimes it seems nothing but.
And it’s not whitewashing, as I’ve said I like a lot of EVs just not for me.
One would be PERFECT for my driving.
02-03-23, 07:49 AM
#42
Intermediate
I was referring to the V6 Sport Accord(which I would take over the Y all day). Now if we are talking 4 cycl Accord, I would probably still take the accord but strictly for budget reasons. The 4cyl accord is very boring to drive lol(but it still looks nicer than the Model Y(imo)).
Last edited by xGS350x; 02-03-23 at 07:56 AM.
02-03-23, 07:53 AM
#43
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Let’s just be honest a little about Tesla’s claimed range. I know my experience is anecdotal but I started at 325 miles of range yesterday and drove about 102 miles yesterday. I ended up last night with 114 miles of range left. It’s very cold here so that changes things a lot as does using sentry (about 30 miles of range to be conservative). Even my friend I was with this week that has a Model 3P said the claimed range was BS.
That is a good bit worse than claimed so I think we need to be a little more honest when we talk about day to day range instead of quoting the highest EPA rated range. We seem to do it with all cars here but it’s just a little disingenuous to quote that on a day to day basis. Also a little disappointing is when I get close to 100 miles of range left power drops off a fair amount although it’s still fast as heck. With the lesser Tesla models power falls off a lot quicker so that should be mentioned too.
That is a good bit worse than claimed so I think we need to be a little more honest when we talk about day to day range instead of quoting the highest EPA rated range. We seem to do it with all cars here but it’s just a little disingenuous to quote that on a day to day basis. Also a little disappointing is when I get close to 100 miles of range left power drops off a fair amount although it’s still fast as heck. With the lesser Tesla models power falls off a lot quicker so that should be mentioned too.
02-03-23, 08:02 AM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
He showed me his phone app the other day on how far he has traveled and the range left and he is getting 300+ miles range.
I asked him how he does it and he says he drives for max efficiency and doesn't run the AC or Heat for his experiment to see how much range he can get.
02-03-23, 08:09 AM
#45
Pole Position
The combined EPA estimate assumes 55% city and 45% highway. Electric vehicles tend to be more efficient during non-highway driving. If you’re driving at less than highway speeds for over 55% of your driving you’re probably going to beat the EPA estimates.