2JZGTE Swap Legality - CA
12-15-05, 01:05 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by HKSC300
Yes, I've been told the same thing as well. Well, the 1JZGTE will never be deemed legal in the US, because the engine was never offered in the US, like the SR20DET.
I've done some more research, and it seems there are more variables at play here than just the "law". Some referees may approve of a 2JZGTE swap, but others may not. It seems to be one of those "officer's judgment calls".
Further, when getting the car inspected at the ref station, there is more than one referee inspecting it; there are three. If even one of them deems it illegal, then it's illegal.
I think this is the main reason why there is yet to be a definitive answer.
I'm going to call around various places and get more than one referee "opinion".
I've done some more research, and it seems there are more variables at play here than just the "law". Some referees may approve of a 2JZGTE swap, but others may not. It seems to be one of those "officer's judgment calls".
Further, when getting the car inspected at the ref station, there is more than one referee inspecting it; there are three. If even one of them deems it illegal, then it's illegal.
I think this is the main reason why there is yet to be a definitive answer.I'm going to call around various places and get more than one referee "opinion".
Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by "referee"?
I was doing some reading on the possibility of putting a Lexus 8-cylinder in 94 GS300. I was told that it is possible, but it will cost anywhere between $6K~$8K for post 98 8-cylinder and +$10K for post 2001 8-cylinder.
Also, a shop in So Cal said that 2JZGTE swap is easier than 8-cylinder transplant. I am looking into legality and cost.
12-15-05, 05:05 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by HKSC300
Ahh, okay.
As far as my understanding goes,
1) Engine has to be of the same year or newer of the same manufacturer.
2) All OEM smog equipment present for visual inspection, and passes sniffer.
3) OBD1 ECU/equipment for pre-96 cars. OBD2 ECU/equipment for post-96 cars.
4) Engine of the same emissions category as the vehicle being swapped into.
*5) Engine must have been offered in the same chassis during the vehicle's production.
If it passes 1)-5), then it is certainly legal.
The point of contention is 5), and it's hard to get a definitive answer because some refs will OK it, some will refuse it. All it takes is for one ref to refuse it, and your whole schebang is illegal.
I've been looking for a BAR ruling on this, but there seems to have been none.
As far as my understanding goes,
1) Engine has to be of the same year or newer of the same manufacturer.
2) All OEM smog equipment present for visual inspection, and passes sniffer.
3) OBD1 ECU/equipment for pre-96 cars. OBD2 ECU/equipment for post-96 cars.
4) Engine of the same emissions category as the vehicle being swapped into.
*5) Engine must have been offered in the same chassis during the vehicle's production.
If it passes 1)-5), then it is certainly legal.
The point of contention is 5), and it's hard to get a definitive answer because some refs will OK it, some will refuse it. All it takes is for one ref to refuse it, and your whole schebang is illegal.
I've been looking for a BAR ruling on this, but there seems to have been none.
Pitiful, I'd do the swap and hope the ref will over look the difference....(Assuming you have criterias 1-4 done already
)Seriously, It's odd how this state sets these limits that prevent you from doing all of this. It's funny how those pre '73 guys are running around with their supercharged big blocks and not having to worry about seeing the "refs".
I've got a question about this subject too...
How different are regulations in Nevada versus California?
I'm thinkin of dropping my SC off to Virtual Works and have them build me a monster and register it with my aunt in Vegas
12-15-05, 05:52 PM
#19
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GoldSC3: a "referee" is basically a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) inspector that will inspect your car when you're given a ref ticket by a cop.
The difference in the 5) criteria isn't just the "T". It's an engine that was only offered in the Supra, and you're swapping it into an SC that never offered that engine. It seems to be luck of the draw whether the refs you're sent to are **** about criteria 5). Which, frankly sucks.
Also, the visual inspection is not limited to just reading off the engine code. They will check for smog devices, vacuum lines, and alot of other things.
Further, let's say that you have a bone stock 2JZGTE in an SC300. Cop pulls you over, for some reason pops your hood. They now carry folders with pics of commonly done engine swaps and mods (damn the Dragnet) versus pics of stock engine bays. At this point, if you have the BAR label on your car, you can show them and they may or may not question you further since the motor appears stock. If you have no BAR label and they see that something is out of place, they give you a ref ticket to the ref station for inspection/correction. With BAR label, you have a CHANCE of getting by. Without BAR label, you're pretty much left with no choice but to swap back to your original engine or de-register your car.
So in summary, I've found even the BAR label is not fool-proof, nor is it a one-time and you're good to go type deal. BAR labels may not stop a cop from sending you to a ref, and BAR labels may not stop a ref from deeming it illegal at that time - even though you have a label that says it is legal. What a useless bureau (for the people).
More and more of my friends/colleagues are getting the ref tickets, especially with Dragnet.
I hate California.
Originally Posted by SC400Dude
So the difference on your "5" criteria between the 2 engines is the "t" right? 2JZ-GTE vs. 2JZ-GE...
Pitiful, I'd do the swap and hope the ref will over look the difference....(Assuming you have criterias 1-4 done already )
Pitiful, I'd do the swap and hope the ref will over look the difference....(Assuming you have criterias 1-4 done already
)Also, the visual inspection is not limited to just reading off the engine code. They will check for smog devices, vacuum lines, and alot of other things.
Further, let's say that you have a bone stock 2JZGTE in an SC300. Cop pulls you over, for some reason pops your hood. They now carry folders with pics of commonly done engine swaps and mods (damn the Dragnet) versus pics of stock engine bays. At this point, if you have the BAR label on your car, you can show them and they may or may not question you further since the motor appears stock. If you have no BAR label and they see that something is out of place, they give you a ref ticket to the ref station for inspection/correction. With BAR label, you have a CHANCE of getting by. Without BAR label, you're pretty much left with no choice but to swap back to your original engine or de-register your car.
So in summary, I've found even the BAR label is not fool-proof, nor is it a one-time and you're good to go type deal. BAR labels may not stop a cop from sending you to a ref, and BAR labels may not stop a ref from deeming it illegal at that time - even though you have a label that says it is legal. What a useless bureau (for the people).
More and more of my friends/colleagues are getting the ref tickets, especially with Dragnet.
I hate California.
12-15-05, 09:58 PM
#20
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if i understand this correctly, putting 2jzgte in gs300 would be legal since 2jzgte was offered by toyota in supra 
. or is it not legal? But, not for sc300 
even if 2jzgte engine swap is legal and get BAR's seal of approval, the seal of approval is meaningless as our national border?
so, if i do find a shop who can do the swap and get BAR's seal of approval it would be best not to do the swap for my 1st gen gs300?
i was hoping for an engine swap in a few years, a 8cylinder swap or 2jzgte, but maybe not a good idea in CALIFORNIA?
what do you guys think?
. or is it not legal? But, not for sc300 even if 2jzgte engine swap is legal and get BAR's seal of approval, the seal of approval is meaningless as our national border?
so, if i do find a shop who can do the swap and get BAR's seal of approval it would be best not to do the swap for my 1st gen gs300?
i was hoping for an engine swap in a few years, a 8cylinder swap or 2jzgte, but maybe not a good idea in CALIFORNIA?
what do you guys think?
12-16-05, 08:24 AM
#21
HKSC300,
Nice post. You just saved me thousands of dollars. I was just going to NA-T or do the GTE swap in my SC300. But now I realize that there is no way it would ever be street legal. My excuses for not purchasing a new Corvette ZO6 are running out.
This is too bad because I truly like the looks of the SC and having a fast “sleeper” would have been fun. Oh-well, thanks California.
Nice post. You just saved me thousands of dollars. I was just going to NA-T or do the GTE swap in my SC300. But now I realize that there is no way it would ever be street legal. My excuses for not purchasing a new Corvette ZO6 are running out.
This is too bad because I truly like the looks of the SC and having a fast “sleeper” would have been fun. Oh-well, thanks California.
12-16-05, 09:12 AM
#22
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Sorry if this thread was confusing. I had hope for the GTE being legal in an SC300/GS300, but the more I asked around, the more confusing it got. From what I've found, it is safest if criteria 1)~5) are met. That's surefire legal (sans modifications). If 5) is not met (all of us SC or GS guys wanting to swap to the GTE engine), it is left to the individual refs (remember, there will be 3 refs inspecting your car) to interpret legal or not. The BAR sticker will not preclude you from getting a ref ticket, nor will it guarantee passing the subsequent ref inspection, whether stock or modified.
Final words: Just don't get caught.
Final words: Just don't get caught.
12-16-05, 09:38 AM
#23
Originally Posted by Minuet
HKSC300,
Nice post. You just saved me thousands of dollars. I was just going to NA-T or do the GTE swap in my SC300. But now I realize that there is no way it would ever be street legal. My excuses for not purchasing a new Corvette ZO6 are running out.
This is too bad because I truly like the looks of the SC and having a fast “sleeper” would have been fun. Oh-well, thanks California.
Nice post. You just saved me thousands of dollars. I was just going to NA-T or do the GTE swap in my SC300. But now I realize that there is no way it would ever be street legal. My excuses for not purchasing a new Corvette ZO6 are running out.
This is too bad because I truly like the looks of the SC and having a fast “sleeper” would have been fun. Oh-well, thanks California.
12-16-05, 10:29 AM
#24
I had plans for my '80 Celica as the rolling smog under the old law would have eliminated it from the smog checks in 2009. When they repealed it, there went the thought for a turbo set-up. Your post brings me to think more on whether I'll pursue a swap. Still, I'll have to get some info and this is a good thread.
Still, I'll have to get some info and this is a good thread.
12-16-05, 10:43 AM
#25
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You guys are paranoid!
How many Ref, mechanic and car guys would even know the difference between a 2jz and 2jz-gte?
Sorry but that is FAR from a "common" swap and the layman wouldn't have a clue if it was stock or not. 99.9999% of cops are far from versed in automotive know how. And most that do know cars concentrate only on the Honda world of common swaps. I have never heard any of my friends with their crazy B20 turbo setup and B18 swap getting any sort of grief.
How many of you on this board would even know the difference between a B16 in the Si with a B20/Vtec setup?
If a cop pulls you over in a GS300 I highly doubt he's going to "pop your hood." Unless of course you got some gaudy body kit and painted two tone puke gree/**** yellow with a big *** spoiler and chrome out the ***. In that case your car NEED to be impounded.
Get real guys, it's a damn Lexus, not a Honda; cops and refs don't even look twice.
How many Ref, mechanic and car guys would even know the difference between a 2jz and 2jz-gte?
Sorry but that is FAR from a "common" swap and the layman wouldn't have a clue if it was stock or not. 99.9999% of cops are far from versed in automotive know how. And most that do know cars concentrate only on the Honda world of common swaps. I have never heard any of my friends with their crazy B20 turbo setup and B18 swap getting any sort of grief.
How many of you on this board would even know the difference between a B16 in the Si with a B20/Vtec setup?
If a cop pulls you over in a GS300 I highly doubt he's going to "pop your hood." Unless of course you got some gaudy body kit and painted two tone puke gree/**** yellow with a big *** spoiler and chrome out the ***. In that case your car NEED to be impounded.
Get real guys, it's a damn Lexus, not a Honda; cops and refs don't even look twice.
12-16-05, 10:58 AM
#26
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I'm sure the authorities are not too well versed in swaps for our cars..Prob one of the main things is the smog equipment...Good luck finding a USDM gte...kudos if ya got the hookup/money.
12-17-05, 07:16 PM
#27
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wow
is it that bad in california that cops actually pop your hood to see your engines? i have never in my life in like 15 speeding tikets and 3 racing tikets got check in my hood, im actually in the process of a swap for my is from a 2jzgte vvti from a 99 aristo
12-17-05, 07:39 PM
#28
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who cares if its not smog legal
im not
no cats, supercharged and polutes like a champ
all the cars i have ever owned never passed smog or were street legal
been sent to ref onces you dont have to go just pay the find of 800dollars and thats it!
after i finish my new set up it will even be worse
cops dont look twice at a lexus unless your causing problems
you will get your hood pop if you drive a honda, or have a riced out car
each time i have gotten pulled over by popo
they have never ask me to pop my hood and all my gauges are clearly visible
im not
no cats, supercharged and polutes like a champ
all the cars i have ever owned never passed smog or were street legal
been sent to ref onces you dont have to go just pay the find of 800dollars and thats it!
after i finish my new set up it will even be worse
cops dont look twice at a lexus unless your causing problems
you will get your hood pop if you drive a honda, or have a riced out car
each time i have gotten pulled over by popo
they have never ask me to pop my hood and all my gauges are clearly visible
12-17-05, 08:28 PM
#29
Originally Posted by guillermo
who cares if its not smog legal
im not
no cats, supercharged and polutes like a champ
all the cars i have ever owned never passed smog or were street legal
been sent to ref onces you dont have to go just pay the find of 800dollars and thats it!
after i finish my new set up it will even be worse
cops dont look twice at a lexus unless your causing problems
you will get your hood pop if you drive a honda, or have a riced out car
each time i have gotten pulled over by popo
they have never ask me to pop my hood and all my gauges are clearly visible
im not
no cats, supercharged and polutes like a champ
all the cars i have ever owned never passed smog or were street legal
been sent to ref onces you dont have to go just pay the find of 800dollars and thats it!
after i finish my new set up it will even be worse
cops dont look twice at a lexus unless your causing problems
you will get your hood pop if you drive a honda, or have a riced out car
each time i have gotten pulled over by popo
they have never ask me to pop my hood and all my gauges are clearly visible
12-18-05, 01:59 AM
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I believe if it's a US motor, from the same manufacturer and a newer year it can be legalized, one of my friends has a B18 (Integra motor) in his CRX that is 100% legal, smogged legally, legal through the smog ref. I would talk to some Honda guys, they seem to know the most about legal motor swaps.