bbong

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the current injectors should suffice even for E85, where the problem is, is not being able to tune DI injectors, so we're only limited to those 8-port injectors, once we can figure out DI then it's possible that we will need more fuel-pressure for more power, but I maybe wrong

RRRacing

iTrader: (1)

OK, so regarding e85 tune, it can be done, but we would need a serious upgrade to the port fuel injectors. That would take a considerable amount of ECU development. Keep in mind, that the port injectors are normally turned off by the ECU above 3500 rpm, and I can tell you all that it was a major project to figure out how to control the port injectors above 3500rpm, when the ECU normally turns them off.

That said, its doable, but first we are going to try to see how much more power we can make with an Aquamist meth injection tune, and then we will try a race gas tune.

We are not crazy about e85, as it tends to gunk up injectors and the actual percent ethanol varies quite a bit. Cars that use e85 effectively and safely typically have a flex fuel sensor that can determine the % alcohol and adjust the tune accordingly -- this is something we will never be able to do on a stock ECU.

BTW, We may even try spinning the SC a bit faster. That said, the same limit on pump gas is really that 520-530whp range given the high compression of the stock motor.

Rafi

MileHIFcar

Rafi,

So can you clarify, and are you saying that you guys needed to crack the port fuel injectors to add fueling to the direct injectors to supply enough for the S/C demands @ 5.5 lbs boost?? How big are the port & direct fuel injectors by size 500cc? And what size do you guys think you would go to with an injector upgrade for both port and direct?

On a side note there have been plenty of documented engines that have run E85 (straight) without any issues at all for 10's of thousands of miles? Some members here have run full E85 on other cars without any issues? I've only read about the cleaning effect of E85 and nothing about gunking up injectors? Curious as to your stance on that subject?

KiPod

iTrader: (31)

E85 does run cleaner. It's not a matter of what fuel you're running so much as what fuel lines your vehicle has and how long you've been running gasoline before you switch to E85. Most modern fuel lines can handle E85 no problem but at first switch (and sometimes for longer depending on line material) older fuel lines and O-rings (basically anything rubber that comes in contact with E85) tend to wear or dissolve kind of from the inside out when switched

The portions of rubber that come in contact with the E85 can start to separate as well as anything else the Ethanol is cleaning and flow along with the fuel and that can then clog the injectors. The fuel tank itself will get a liquid washing of the walls and that can mess with the fuel pump and sock filer as well. Imagine a water pipe used for years that has some internal rust. If the rust breaks free it will flow along with the water.

So, the E85 itself doesn't clog or gunk things up. It's the build up over time and sometimes the rubber itself that the E85 is "cleaning" along the way that causes issues. When gas stations switched to gasoline with 10% Ethanol blend a few years back we saw tons of vehicles coming in with rough idles and starting issues because of clogged injectors, filters, etc. Most were fixed with new filters and/or fuel system cleaner service.

MileHIFcar

^^^^Makes sense, I don't see any issues with the ISF and it's fueling system though and the fuel lines & fuel tank. Like you explained though with older cars with 100k+ and ****ty gas that never used any kind of gas treatment cleaner (BG 44K etc...) and has carbon build up then yea the clogging up makes sense as the E85 will clean the entire fuel system from the tank all the way through the injectors.

Thanks for the added info about this subject

BTW I have been blending E-30/35 for the past 5 months and no issues at all except the car runs like a bat out of hell with my mods and the higher octane!

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Don't forget, as manifold pressure increases, injector flow at the same pressure drops. Supra guys experimented with rising rate FPRs just to get around this with the very nice side feed OEM injectors. It also made part throttle trims a lot easier and idle was exactly like stock. You just can't do that all the time, and with a returnless system as we have (the only return exists inside the fuel tank), it gets even harder to implement. Sure, there are lots of ways you could fix it, but few are economical and many are completely impractical for anything but a racecar.

RRRacing

iTrader: (1)

The stock DI system can supply about 490whp safely... you can get it higher with DI, or if you supplement with Meth injection, but its really marginal. Street racers and dyno queens may not notice a difference, but once you really start pushing the car hard on the track, the DI pumps cannot keep up once the ECU commands too high a DI duty cycle combined with aggressive shifting and high temperatures -- and that leads to all kinds of problems.

Yeah, but we are mostly running DI at 2000psi, not PI, so manifold pressure not such a big deal.

Our Port injectors I believe are around 280cc, but I don't know for sure as I never had them bench tested.

Rafi

RRRacing

iTrader: (1)

Happy Friday...

Just wanted to post a more close-up pic of our drive system pulleys and tensioner. Some features:

(1) Custom harmonic damper built for us by ATi drives the Supercharger belt while damping harmonic vibrations.
(2) All billet idler pulleys with high precision double bearings
(3) Billet tensioner generates significantly more belt tension than conventional off the shelf tensioners. Conventional tensioners pivot on plastic sliders, but our billet pulley uses bearing pivots for ZERO deflection or misalignment even under the harshest conditions.

-Rafi

RR Racing ISF Supercharger billet crank, idler, and tensioner pulley system

PDP180180

iTrader: (3)

They look great Rafi.

Can you supply other colours? Or just the red anodised finish?

You can see the quality though.

tas02

iTrader: (2)

^^^
Oh, will this kit fit RHD?

PDP180180

iTrader: (3)

I bloody hope so! Lol.

RRRacing

iTrader: (1)

Well, these kits are not exactly mass production, so right now we are just doing one color.

I don't see why it wouldn't fit RHD. I kind of wish we get some orders from Japan, given that this kit is far superior to anything put out by iCode or J&K, at a significantly lower price We buy JDM Japanese stuff, lets see if they buy USDM stuff....

Rafi

PDP180180

iTrader: (3)

Sounds good Rafi.

Anything I can do photo or description wise to help you guys figure out if it'll fit my car? I'm hoping to buy the kit pretty soon, and if it fits mine, should fit European and Japanese examples as well.

One thing we will need to look into is the black box behind my grill for the active cruise control. Know you said most US examples don't have it, but most U.K. examples do I'm afraid!

RRRacing

iTrader: (1)

That sensor is for the adaptive cruise control... if it were me, I'd throw it away Seriously though, if its really that important to keep it, I am sure it can be removed relocated to the left hand side of the grill. Haven't done it yet, but eventually when we get a car with it in the shop, we will take a look.

We could reduce the height of the intercooler, but I really don't want to do that as it would reduce the cross section which is critical to making sure there is no pressure drop across the intercooler. We use a large 4.5"x12" cross section core.

Rafi

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

FYI, this is truly one of the things separating the best from the rest. ATI's damper is second to none. Anyone putting an undamped pulley on a V-8 is looking for a broken crankshaft. Harmonic vibration is a crank killer. The fact this kit comes with this unit (at no small cost) is a clear indication the homework was done and the approach is sound. If you Google my name, you'll find any number of forums where I have posted about the stupidity of replacing a dampened pulley with an undampened one.