New Lexus Hybrid: CT 200h (42 MPG) Updated with F-sport Debut
02-25-10, 04:55 PM
#376
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I have not much problem with the current IS. To me its great for price of the car, the IS interior does remind me of Acura a lot. And is not a bad thing IMO
02-25-10, 05:18 PM
#377
And as I detailed earlier, they also share a common "platform"/chassis (note the use of quotes). Also, the 1.8L gas engine is a common denominator here.
Again, this isn't a bad thing. It's not a slam or knock against Toyota/Lexus, I'd be the last person to do that unless truly warranted.
The Matrix (chassis) and Prius (drivetrain) are to the CT what the Camry is to the ES. This is a necessity at this price point/vehicle class.
Again, this isn't a bad thing. It's not a slam or knock against Toyota/Lexus, I'd be the last person to do that unless truly warranted.
The Matrix (chassis) and Prius (drivetrain) are to the CT what the Camry is to the ES. This is a necessity at this price point/vehicle class.
Toyota has MC platform on which >30 models are based... such as Corolla, Rav4, Camry, Prius, HS, etc. However, these platforms do not share chasis, and all of these cars feel and drive differently.
For Toyota, sharing platform does not mean that actual chasis is the same. All modern Toyota's are design to accept modern engine lines such as ZR, AR and GR engine series.
There are some cars that are mechanically very similar, but thats usually very rare... For instance, HS250h uses Avensis chasis, which is Toyota's upscale european Passat competitor. It has multilink suspension and larger wheelbase than Corolla for instance. And drives nothing like Corolla.
In >99% of the cases, suspesnion is always different between cars even on same platform... and MC platform has cars as small as Auris and as big as Previa (minivan).
Not all manufacturers use platforms the same... VW has modular platforms that share many parts together, which is why their interiors sometimes look very alike. Toyota does not do that currently, although they did mention in one of the recent interviews that they will have to move to platform sharing as in VW to lower the cost of building cars.
I am sure i mentioned it before, but several years ago we had Corolla (FWD), Rav4 (AWD) and MR2 share same platform, and behave, look nothing alike... even when on the lift, you would not notice similarities.
02-25-10, 05:56 PM
#378
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all right, let me explain it better, once again, Matrix platform does not exist... Matrix is one of the lowest selling vehicles in Toyota range, it does not have its own platform.
Toyota has MC platform on which >30 models are based... such as Corolla, Rav4, Camry, Prius, HS, etc. However, these platforms do not share chasis, and all of these cars feel and drive differently.
For Toyota, sharing platform does not mean that actual chasis is the same. All modern Toyota's are design to accept modern engine lines such as ZR, AR and GR engine series.
There are some cars that are mechanically very similar, but thats usually very rare... For instance, HS250h uses Avensis chasis, which is Toyota's upscale european Passat competitor. It has multilink suspension and larger wheelbase than Corolla for instance. And drives nothing like Corolla.
In >99% of the cases, suspesnion is always different between cars even on same platform... and MC platform has cars as small as Auris and as big as Previa (minivan).
Not all manufacturers use platforms the same... VW has modular platforms that share many parts together, which is why their interiors sometimes look very alike. Toyota does not do that currently, although they did mention in one of the recent interviews that they will have to move to platform sharing as in VW to lower the cost of building cars.
I am sure i mentioned it before, but several years ago we had Corolla (FWD), Rav4 (AWD) and MR2 share same platform, and behave, look nothing alike... even when on the lift, you would not notice similarities.
Toyota has MC platform on which >30 models are based... such as Corolla, Rav4, Camry, Prius, HS, etc. However, these platforms do not share chasis, and all of these cars feel and drive differently.
For Toyota, sharing platform does not mean that actual chasis is the same. All modern Toyota's are design to accept modern engine lines such as ZR, AR and GR engine series.
There are some cars that are mechanically very similar, but thats usually very rare... For instance, HS250h uses Avensis chasis, which is Toyota's upscale european Passat competitor. It has multilink suspension and larger wheelbase than Corolla for instance. And drives nothing like Corolla.
In >99% of the cases, suspesnion is always different between cars even on same platform... and MC platform has cars as small as Auris and as big as Previa (minivan).
Not all manufacturers use platforms the same... VW has modular platforms that share many parts together, which is why their interiors sometimes look very alike. Toyota does not do that currently, although they did mention in one of the recent interviews that they will have to move to platform sharing as in VW to lower the cost of building cars.
I am sure i mentioned it before, but several years ago we had Corolla (FWD), Rav4 (AWD) and MR2 share same platform, and behave, look nothing alike... even when on the lift, you would not notice similarities.
I've been following the auto industry for years, and have been connected directly to the industry in a professional capacity since graduating from college (albeit on the commercial side, specifically Daimler).
I have been in countless meetings with engineers. I know how things work (or don't), despite what flowery, psychobable press releases might say (my academic background is in communication/PR, by the way, so I have an understanding and appreciation of these things from both engineering and marketing perspectives).
What I am saying is not only are the Matrix and CT on the same basic platform, they are more or less the same vehicle chassis for reasons I have outline in previous posts.
In essence, people are taking the Lexus pressers at face value, that the CT is on some new, dedicated platform.
I am arguing (and convinced) that it isn't. Perhaps the suspension TUNING is unique to the CT, but the design/construction is not. Same wheelbase as the Matrix exactly. Same suspension design/setup (Matrix XRS, as other Matrix models do not have the double-wishbone rear suspension). Same basic body configuration (5-door hatch).
Lexus feels it is important, and rightly so, that the CT must be set apart. Of course they can use a vague word like "new" to describe the "platform" even when that isn't the case. And of course they can't and don't want to and shouldn't make a point that it is made up of existing components/systems from Toyota's parts bin (from the Prius-sourced drivetrain to the Matrix-sourced chassis).
I think you and I are just wasting our time at this point arguing about semantics.
I am curious to know though, as I really don't have the desire to research this myself, but please let me know if you know of any other products in the Toyota portfolio (globally) that have a 2600mm wheelbase, FWD, Mac strut front/double-wishbone rear suspension, and are 5-door hatch/wagon??
For me, there are too many fundamental similarities between the chassis of the Matrix XRS and the Lexus CT to dismiss.
02-25-10, 06:09 PM
#379
Once again, you could have saved yourself a lot of typing. I understand that there is no Matrix "platform", hence my use of quotes.
I've been following the auto industry for years, and have been connected directly to the industry in a professional capacity since graduating from college (albeit on the commercial side, specifically Daimler).
I have been in countless meetings with engineers. I know how things work (or don't), despite what flowery, psychobable press releases might say (my academic background is in communication/PR, by the way, so I have an understanding and appreciation of these things from both engineering and marketing perspectives).
What I am saying is not only are the Matrix and CT on the same basic platform, they are more or less the same vehicle chassis for reasons I have outline in previous posts.
In essence, people are taking the Lexus pressers at face value, that the CT is on some new, dedicated platform.
I am arguing (and convinced) that it isn't. Perhaps the suspension TUNING is unique to the CT, but the design/construction is not. Same wheelbase as the Matrix exactly. Same suspension design/setup (Matrix XRS, as other Matrix models do not have the double-wishbone rear suspension). Same basic body configuration (5-door hatch).
Lexus feels it is important, and rightly so, that the CT must be set apart. Of course they can use a vague word like "new" to describe the "platform" even when that isn't the case. And of course they can't and don't want to and shouldn't make a point that it is made up of existing components/systems from Toyota's parts bin (from the Prius-sourced drivetrain to the Matrix-sourced chassis).
I think you and I are just wasting our time at this point arguing about semantics.
I am curious to know though, as I really don't have the desire to research this myself, but please let me know if you know of any other products in the Toyota portfolio (globally) that have a 2600mm wheelbase, FWD, Mac strut front/double-wishbone rear suspension, and are 5-door hatch/wagon??
For me, there are too many fundamental similarities between the chassis of the Matrix XRS and the Lexus CT to dismiss.
I've been following the auto industry for years, and have been connected directly to the industry in a professional capacity since graduating from college (albeit on the commercial side, specifically Daimler).
I have been in countless meetings with engineers. I know how things work (or don't), despite what flowery, psychobable press releases might say (my academic background is in communication/PR, by the way, so I have an understanding and appreciation of these things from both engineering and marketing perspectives).
What I am saying is not only are the Matrix and CT on the same basic platform, they are more or less the same vehicle chassis for reasons I have outline in previous posts.
In essence, people are taking the Lexus pressers at face value, that the CT is on some new, dedicated platform.
I am arguing (and convinced) that it isn't. Perhaps the suspension TUNING is unique to the CT, but the design/construction is not. Same wheelbase as the Matrix exactly. Same suspension design/setup (Matrix XRS, as other Matrix models do not have the double-wishbone rear suspension). Same basic body configuration (5-door hatch).
Lexus feels it is important, and rightly so, that the CT must be set apart. Of course they can use a vague word like "new" to describe the "platform" even when that isn't the case. And of course they can't and don't want to and shouldn't make a point that it is made up of existing components/systems from Toyota's parts bin (from the Prius-sourced drivetrain to the Matrix-sourced chassis).
I think you and I are just wasting our time at this point arguing about semantics.
I am curious to know though, as I really don't have the desire to research this myself, but please let me know if you know of any other products in the Toyota portfolio (globally) that have a 2600mm wheelbase, FWD, Mac strut front/double-wishbone rear suspension, and are 5-door hatch/wagon??
For me, there are too many fundamental similarities between the chassis of the Matrix XRS and the Lexus CT to dismiss.
There are some japanese cars which have same type of suspension, and some special models like Matrix and Auris.
It also shares platform with Avensis, HS250h, Rav4 which have same type of suspension, but different wheelbase... which really means nothing, they just extended the wheelbase on same platform vehicle.
So basically, what you are saying is that Toyota sells around 30 same-similar vehicles.
Problem is that once you drive these cars, you will realize that they do not feel nothing alike when you drive them. Because while their chasis might be called the same, they are actually not sharing parts... shocking discovery!
02-25-10, 06:22 PM
#380
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I am not sure what exactly 5 door has to do with anything really? It has actually nothing at all to do with platform whatsoever ;-). Or suspension.. or chasis. At all. Matrix is Corolla Hatchback... and you have Corolla Sedan which is exactly the same car, with same chasis, same interior.
There are some japanese cars which have same type of suspension, and some special models like Matrix and Auris.
It also shares platform with Avensis, HS250h, Rav4 which have same type of suspension, but different wheelbase... which really means nothing, they just extended the wheelbase on same platform vehicle.
So basically, what you are saying is that Toyota sells around 30 same-similar vehicles.
Problem is that once you drive these cars, you will realize that they do not feel nothing alike when you drive them. Because while their chasis might be called the same, they are actually not sharing parts... shocking discovery!
There are some japanese cars which have same type of suspension, and some special models like Matrix and Auris.
It also shares platform with Avensis, HS250h, Rav4 which have same type of suspension, but different wheelbase... which really means nothing, they just extended the wheelbase on same platform vehicle.
So basically, what you are saying is that Toyota sells around 30 same-similar vehicles.
Problem is that once you drive these cars, you will realize that they do not feel nothing alike when you drive them. Because while their chasis might be called the same, they are actually not sharing parts... shocking discovery!
Besides the Matrix XRS and the Lexus CT, do you know of any other vehicles in Toyota's global portfolio, regardless of "platform" or other semantic issues, that share the following characteristics?
-FWD
-2600mm wheelbase
-5-door hatch/wagon
-Mac strut front/double-wishbone rear suspension
??
02-25-10, 06:41 PM
#381
You sound like a broken record and are assuming I am completely ignorant. To be plain, I am asking you this:
Besides the Matrix XRS and the Lexus CT, do you know of any other vehicles in Toyota's global portfolio, regardless of "platform" or other semantic issues, that share the following characteristics?
-FWD
-2600mm wheelbase
-5-door hatch/wagon
-Mac strut front/double-wishbone rear suspension
??
Besides the Matrix XRS and the Lexus CT, do you know of any other vehicles in Toyota's global portfolio, regardless of "platform" or other semantic issues, that share the following characteristics?
-FWD
-2600mm wheelbase
-5-door hatch/wagon
-Mac strut front/double-wishbone rear suspension
??
Usually Toyota's smaller cars have cheaper suspension. Which is why more premium cars on same platform have it.
"Platform" is not just semantics ;-).
Oh look, PR from Lexus... "rear suspension exclusive to CT200h"
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/25/o...in-on-ct-200h/
ignorant lies!
02-25-10, 06:46 PM
#383
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According to Lexus, the front and rear suspension design is unique to the CT. It will be interesting to see whether it's identical or not to the Matrix; somehow I doubt it.
Given the fact that the battery pack sits ahead of the rear axle, under the seats and really does not impede cargo capacity that much (if it all), the platform is obviously modified compared to the Matrix XRS. You simply won't be able to stick a battery pack and the rear electric motors into a Matrix XRS and expect cargo capacity and rear seat space to remain the same. I am sure some unique changes needed to be made to the CT's floor pan and undercarriage to efficiently fit the battery pack and electric motors along with the double wishbone suspension.
Likewise, the front and rear lateral dampers are new, and have not been seen on any previous Lexus or Toyota vehicle.
I think what the actual fact is that the CT uses a heavily modified Matrix XRS "platform", which almost makes it a unique platform.
The rear suspension I also found out is a double wishbone design with rear trailing arm, with the springs and shocks positioned separately. I don't think the Matrix XRS rear suspension is quite the same.
As for those new pics, that rear end is gorgeous. The front end also looks great in high-res pics.
White really was a bad color to unveil the car in, as it hides a lot of styling details and character lines.
With that said, I really think it's a gorgeous design, looking at these pics. The rear has a very futuristic look that's close to the concept. Note the lack of visible exhaust and visible rear wiper, just like the 3RX. Both the exhaust and rear wiper are concealed for a cleaner look. Also you can see what looks like soft touch plastic on the dash.
Given the fact that the battery pack sits ahead of the rear axle, under the seats and really does not impede cargo capacity that much (if it all), the platform is obviously modified compared to the Matrix XRS. You simply won't be able to stick a battery pack and the rear electric motors into a Matrix XRS and expect cargo capacity and rear seat space to remain the same. I am sure some unique changes needed to be made to the CT's floor pan and undercarriage to efficiently fit the battery pack and electric motors along with the double wishbone suspension.
Likewise, the front and rear lateral dampers are new, and have not been seen on any previous Lexus or Toyota vehicle.
I think what the actual fact is that the CT uses a heavily modified Matrix XRS "platform", which almost makes it a unique platform.
The rear suspension I also found out is a double wishbone design with rear trailing arm, with the springs and shocks positioned separately. I don't think the Matrix XRS rear suspension is quite the same.
As for those new pics, that rear end is gorgeous. The front end also looks great in high-res pics.
White really was a bad color to unveil the car in, as it hides a lot of styling details and character lines.
With that said, I really think it's a gorgeous design, looking at these pics. The rear has a very futuristic look that's close to the concept. Note the lack of visible exhaust and visible rear wiper, just like the 3RX. Both the exhaust and rear wiper are concealed for a cleaner look. Also you can see what looks like soft touch plastic on the dash.
02-25-10, 06:47 PM
#384
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As i already said above, Auris/Matrix and few japanise sportier models.
Usually Toyota's smaller cars have cheaper suspension. Which is why more premium cars on same platform have it.
"Platform" is not just semantics ;-).
Oh look, PR from Lexus... "rear suspension exclusive to CT200h"
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/25/o...in-on-ct-200h/
ignorant lies!
Usually Toyota's smaller cars have cheaper suspension. Which is why more premium cars on same platform have it.
"Platform" is not just semantics ;-).
Oh look, PR from Lexus... "rear suspension exclusive to CT200h"
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/25/o...in-on-ct-200h/
ignorant lies!
It's not exclusive to the CT, at least not in the Toyota family. That's misleading. The Matrix XRS is a 5-door, FWD wagon with 2600mm wheelbase and double-A rear suspension.
Are the shocks and springs tuned specifically for the CT? Sure. But the fundamental suspension design is not exclusive. More vague PR talk.
Have fun believing whatever you want, though. 
EDIT: TRDFantasy, I basically agree with your assessment. I'm pretty much done talking about this now.
The car does look absolutely fantastic for what it is. That dash is awesome. It combines the best of Lexus, BMW, and dare I say the first generation TSX.
02-25-10, 06:56 PM
#386
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/247794/
more real life pics.
p.s. i spotted heated steering wheel, heated windshield and autofold mirrors, bits of leather on top of instruments and around centrel console.... nice.
02-25-10, 06:58 PM
#387
if you read PR properly, exclusive back suspension, and modified front suspension with some unique parts... thats said as firmly as it can be said. but you can believe what you want, power to the people ;-). and beers for us.
02-25-10, 07:13 PM
#390
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http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/247794/
more real life pics.
p.s. i spotted heated steering wheel, heated windshield and autofold mirrors, bits of leather on top of instruments and around centrel console.... nice.
.
I also really like the red gauge cluster surround lighting and tach when under Sport mode.