LexFather

They are first reviews, not full tests. You also cannot do a straight Euro to Dollar conversion to say "its 40k as tested".

Will even a measly 12k be hard to achieve here. Yes, especially if gas stays around the $2.50 mark for regular gas.

spwolf

it might not even reach those sales, it really depends on the price... Maybe some people expect it to be WRX beater? ))). When it comes to sports, i believe it will be sportier than current crop of Lexus vehicle, but it is still an Lexus.

Just dont expect it to review well in Europe, as they usually do not. I dont believe Lexus has ever won comparo in Europe, and sales here are 10x less than in USA. For a while Toyota started winning german Autobild comparos and Auris was even first vehicle in 25 year history to beat Golf, but once recession hit, nothing but german goes to the top 3 places )).


What CT200h is small premium hatchback with good space and sporty drive, luxury cabin and apparently good price. It has good space at the back (compared to other premium hatches more), good trunk, extra good mpg compared to best of diesels and decent oomph. If someone expects WRX beater for Yaris price, well it is wrong car.

But this is European bread and butter vehicle category. This is what Camry is in Europe.

http://cars.about.com/b/2010/09/29/p...00h-hybrid.htm

And lets not forget What Car that got 5-6 people who own similar cars check it out and all A3 buyers were extremely positive about it.

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/lexu...m-video/252184

spwolf

p.s. In Europe consumption matters a lot... maybe not to Bugatti driving journos, but used car values are crazy depending on consumption.

I have to replace my GS350AWD since I moved, and i am looking at 530d and A6 3.0Q... And versions with 3.0l engines drop in value much faster than smaller engines... and situation is such that 2 year 530xd costs same as base CT200h . Now imagine if your 530xi would drop in price from 70k to 30k in 2 years, well thats whats happening here... Only small cars and very frugal cars are holding value.

dunnojack

same thing in the US.
people recognize lexus as a well-built car, but it usually doesn't win comparisons against the germans here either.

it will always be third, and sometimes 2nd, place.

Fizzboy7

I've noticed over time, when a car gets negative reviews early on and before it goes on sale, nine times out of time it ends up being a sales failure. So I agree with your comments. And sadly, I think Lexus was way off base with the CT design. The recipe is loaded with weaknesses: Four-door hatchback body, not particularly fast, not particularly sporty, not particularly luxurious, somewhat pricey (justifiably), and charting new territory- all equal high risks and bad odds.

LexFather

spwolf

link i posted earlier had some more info on the vehicle interior:
- nuleather is softer than german fake leather, still not as soft as perforated leather
- only black leather for Euro markets
- wood decorations will be changeable as accessories at dealers.

spwolf

kind of... in US, they get reviewed as top notch cars, just not sporty ones... In Europe, there is always some changeable criteria on why BMW/Audi/MB is better. Or if it simply can not be, they dont rate them in that case, like RX450h vs german diesels in Autobild... they didnt rate cars at the end . While with GS450h vs germans, they said hybrid is better powertrain, and germans should copy it but BMW is better car overall.

Or Toyota reviews after recession hit... Toyota Rav4 in 2007, 100kmh-0 36m, wow brakes!.... Toyota Rav4 in 2009, 100kmh-0 in 40m, awful brakes! (Same model, nothing changed except 3 new German SUVs on the market). Valvematic vs TSI - Valvematic engines are cheaper, burn less fuel, go faster, yet car gets rated worse because in that case, those things are not important anymore.... You have bunch of germans complaining in the forums how VW wins every comparo .

A lot of "enthusiasts" in Europe hate Lexus, thinking it is cheap Toyota with cheap interiors (in reality of course they probably never sat in one as it is usually considerably higher quality than competition .

Vladi

Of course cause they've never driven it or seen it and they will never own it. Not to sound like a douche but reason is quite simple: Lexus offers only big V6s and V8s which they cannot afford to buy, pay taxes and refill em in neither BMW, Merc or Audi. So they stick with 525d, btw not a bad car by any means but its just not close to GS350. Period.

LexFather

And EVO just drilled it and I am a fan of their writing....mind you they gave the IS F 5 out of 5 stars

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...id_review.html

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Those are the concept wheels....are they going to become an option?

venom21

So this is turning out to be the Euro HS, at least from the reviews....great. I'm beginning to think it might flop, it needed to be a knockout, but isn't. The brand snobs will just ignore it.

LexFather

They are 17" optional F-sport wheels patterend after the concept Or maybe 18" not sure

The HS drives pretty good though, it just looks horrid, is priced high and is odd inside. The CT seems to have a ton of work done on its suspension but its not translating to good reviews.

It needs MORE POWER. A solid chassis needs power to exploit what its capable of. 100hp or so ain't gonna do it in 3100lbs.

As for Euro snobs, yeah its a tough sell there but it has low emissions and possibly no tax going for it.

spwolf

it is the same rating they gave your GS450h .... Outdated cabin with few quality touches? I guess it depends on what other cars you drive...

Vladi

I was laughing reading that. They try really hard not to like it.
Well I guess they didn't sit inside 118d or A3 now those cabins are ubber boredom to be in and to look at. And at least half 1eries and A3 come with manual AC and rear windows.