JessePS

I wonder when Lexus-Toyota will start using better batteries. You can travel anywhere at 45 km/h for 2.6 kilometers. They honestly need to find a way to make the batteries at least last 10-20 km on EV.

spwolf

Prius PHEV will do 20km... it will also cost a lot more than normal prius. It is not a matter or wanting to do it but rather that it is expensive. There is no free beer ;-)

spwolf

so basically, in Sport mode, CT200h will have 30% more electric power/torque... like turbo overboost.

DustinV

I see plenty of BMW 1 series here with leather - and I live in Germany where leather seats on luxury cars, especially smaller ones, aren't that common. What I cannot tell you is if the leather in the car is real or fake.

I believe the rare 130i hatchback even has real leather as standard, though.

JessePS

PHEV will only be electric or it will also have a gas motor?

DustinV

Glad I can provide insight.

I really hope the CT-200h will give Lexus a better footing in Europe, but at the same time they need more engine options for this car. The 1.8 motor mated to a hybrid just won't cut it. Sure, it will find buyers, but at the same time there may be people considering a CT-200h and then dropping the idea because they don't want a hybrid. The CT-200h, in my opinion, could easily become more appealing with an assortment of smaller diesel and gasoline engines - and cloth seats as standard. Cloth seats in premium cars isn't anything to be ashamed about over here. My ex-C200 CDI and E230 had them, and now my 118d has them - and none of these cars has ever made a negative impression on me despite the cloth seats.




Dealer network seems to be part of the problem. The bigger problem, from my point of view, are cars that don't appeal to Europeans. Let's not forget that Lexus are primarily designed for the North American market. Their sales elsewhere can be described as "opportunistic", but hardly a concentrated effort. The CT-200h seems to be a step in the right direction, but it won't create wonders for the brand overnight. As I told CJ, I feel that they need more engine choices (without an electric motor) and different trims.

There was an interesting documentary a few weeks ago on the German news channel N24 about luxury brands. I've searched Youtube and www.n24.de for the show but without success. Anyway, this report was interesting because it demonstrated how the brand name came to be (from their creators, families etc.), which, in a sense, gives the brand an emotional appeal/connection. Brand heritage and prestige are important considerations in Europe. With Lexus, this is completely lacking - and the Europeans know it. To them, Lexus is an empty brand. You get great cars with nice features for "relatively little money", but at the same time, your average customer wants more than that. They want something emotional in the marque for example (what the brand stands for and represents) and with Lexus, this hasn't worked in Europe as they lack a history or heritage Europeans can identify with. Styling-wise, Lexus cars are rather mundane for European tastes, too. Again, clearly Lexus cars weren't designed for Europe and they've still not adapted them to suit the European market and tastes. The CT-200h is a step in the right direction, though.

Also, this brings up an important point. I work in the advertising industry and virtually 90% of car advertisements in North America make it a point to emphasize features and new technology. In Europe on the other hand, most automotive advertising strives to make an emotional connection with the consumer where design and styling as well as brand heritage are placed ahead of technology and features. This isn't a generalization, though, but for the most part it can be supported through facts.


It sells well in the UK, not in the rest of Europe. The RX hybrid was always the most popular Lexus in the UK, and the new model continues this tradition. In the rest of Europe, diesel SUVs, compact and premium, dominate sales. I think the RX would benefit from a diesel engine, too.

Here's a list of car sales in Germany for the month of February 2010. I took this photo from the current Auto Motor und Sport, which I rarely buy, but bought because it had some interesting digitally altered images of the upcoming Audi A6.

The chart on the left represents the top 50 individual models from various brands sold in Germany. The number within the parenthesis to the right of the 1,2,3... numbers represents the position this particular make from a brand held the month before.

The chart on the right are the manufacturers and the total registrations in Germany for the month of February. I've taken the liberty of highlighting the big German three and Lexus.

(Cj)

That's great info DustinV!

Lexus actually isn't doing that bad, but there is a LOT of room for improvement...

spwolf

both lexus and toyota sales were down for feb due to recall madness, so those numbers are skewed... nevertheless, it is not as if Lexus numbers are that much better usually, good way to compare is to Toyota sales. 900k Toyotas sold, 28k Lexuses... in USA, that ratio is 15%, isnt it? In europe, it is 3%. Big difference.

They predict CT200h will double Lexus sales.


They do not want to compete at very low point of the sector, unlike BMW and MB, they have Toyota's for that. So you will not get CT200h with smaller engines.

spwolf

(For instance Toyota's market share in germany is between 4 and 5%, feb 2010 was 2.3%)

spwolf

Think Prius with bigger batteries... and price ;-). Once you really press on the gas or run out of battery, it behaves like regular Prius with hybrid engine.

LexFather

Europeans are badge *****s. More so than us. Just ready ANY ANY ANY magazine, EVO/Top Gear/CAR if you don't know someone from Europe. They base a lot of merit on the badge and image.

Lexus still has a lot of work in that area. When Infiniti debuted, all they talked about was lack of image/prestige.

What is working for Lexus is people buying USED CARS and finding out how trouble free they are and great for everyday. I think its smart they go to hybrids only b/c I don't see most Europeans outside of the U.K buying a diesel Lexus over a diesel German.

DustinV

Unlike in the US, Toyota owners in Europe don't automatically switch over to a Lexus when they feel it is time for a luxury car. This fact was supported by a well-researched report about a year ago, but I can't find it anymore. I think it was Autobild or Autozeitung that published it, but I cannot be sure. You won't find the article online, too. I've tried and failed to find it.

Also, what "low point of the sector" are you referring to? The smallest cars Audi, BMW and Mercedes' offer are the A3, 1er and A/B classes respectively - to which the CT-200h is a direct competitor according to Lexus.

Another thing. Look at the sales chart I posted. You can see that the Audi A4, BMW 3er and Mercedes C class outsell their smaller counterparts. Where is the Lexus IS on that list? Don't assume the CT-200h will double Lexus sales based on its size etc. There's really more to selling cars in Europe than decreasing size and offering fake and real leather.

DustinV

Let's be honest here. The European rivals that Lexus competes against have the badge prestige and history as well as merit. Brand prestige simply means more in Europe and elsewhere in the world than in America. If Americans were as brand conscious as the rest of the world, Cadillacs and Lincolns riding on Chevy and Ford platforms would never have sold in masses.

Also, the quality and reliability of German cars has been quite steady as of late. I've never had any problems with my C class, E class nor the second-hand 1 series I am driving at the moment. No problems of any kind at all. Mind you, those two ex-Benzes weren't exactly strippers since I did have quite a few fancy gadgets in them. The few coworkers of mine who are car enthusiasts also report satisfaction with their mostly VW products.

Take a look at this. Toyota reliability in Europe has suffered apparently beginning in 2006. The reliability graphic below is the result from surveyed readers of the magazine Auto Motor und Sport. Personally, I don't place much faith in quality reports of any kind. I buy what I like.

And please don't accuse me of being anti-Toyota and pro-German.

STIG

I am sorry, but that graph looks like it was completely made up. It just doesn't make sense.

LexFather

My point wasn't a slight to Euro buyers, it is what it is.

Sorry but this is an internet phenomenon and not exclusive to you. Super German fans say their cars have no issues and their friends or their old Lexus/Toyota was problematic. Its possible but rare and not a coincidence WHO says this.

Stig, Cdnrockies, Rominl, Och and dozens of others are pretty straight with telling us the pros/cons of others and don't get caught up in presenting the German brand as superior is ALL aspects. They are bought for other merits outside of reliability. We have seen thousands of posts from people saying they own both or had a German car and well it's reliability was bad.

I've never had a perfect Lexus, they have always had issues or two but nothing to the extent as German cars.

Surveys worldwide for 2 decades prove this.

It is. Lexus/Honda have scored tops in Top Gear surveys most every year and Toyota finishes well too.