pagemaster

Actually, if you read my posts. I do like the HS, I don't have much problem with the styling and interior is ok, not brilliant but it works. The only issue I do have with it is the price, but rebates like the one we have here in Ontario help bring the cost down.

And for the record, I am not convinced at all that the HS will make it to a refresh. But again this is just my opinion and it has nothing to do with Acura/Merc or BMW

If and perhaps when it does get canceled. I would leave the US market, it does well everywhere else but the USA...and it is a Toyota in many other places

But you are right back on the CT discussion. I wonder how others would feel if the CT had a 2.0 tubro diesel in place of the hybrid system??? I would certainly be accepted in the Europe...but how about the US?

(Cj)

The HS probably won't get cut. What's more likely is it'll get a significant refresh. New engine, new grille, lower price, are all likely to be elements of the HS refresh.

An ES hybrid would probably be more like the RX hybrid then the HS. Essentially, for the next generation, the ES will probably move up a notch or two and get a new $40+K hybrid model, while the HS is the $35Kish hybrid (and the CT is the sub-30K hybrid).

Likewise then you'll have the GSh in the $50s and possibly an LS400h (likened to the S400) in the $60K range.

Yup let's stop beating a dead horse and get this thread back on the CT...

(Cj)

Other than the price and the controversial styling another problem with the HS is that it's "underpowered" by American standards anyway.

I bring this up because that could potentially be a problem for the CT as well, at least here in the US. It'd be the least powerful luxury car sold in America as far as I know.

pagemaster

The size is fine, the price is not. The HS is about $10k overpriced. Lexus models are usually smaller than American cars....just compare the ES to the Avalon....If the HS was priced about the same as the Camry Hybrid, then Lexus would have a winner.

Something tells me that the CT was not designed and never intended for the USA....it looks like it was a last minute decision to add it to the US lineup....I love the interior design tho

LexFather

Pagemaster already started a HS rant thread. Go there to rant about the HS. Last time I am asking, this is about the CT.

pagemaster

you are right, it seems like a diesel turbo might be a better choice.

(Cj)

Are you talking about the HS's price in the Canada market? If so, I can't comment on that. In the US the price is a little high, but a few grand probably won't make much of a difference for people. It should not be priced below $30K USD.

The CT definitely was NOT designed for the US market. For one it's a hatch, and secondly it's low on horsepower. I personally prefer the CT over the HS because to me it is more European which is what a luxury car should be. But I don't know if most people will see it that way. If you go to non-auto sites such as the NYTimes and other newspapers and look at the comments most people don't like the CT and think it's a Matrix/Yaris...

But anyway the CT is the perfect car for Canada...

Turbo-diesel is not happening and that wouldn't add to it's appeal in the US. People in the US like hybrids, so it being a hybrid isn't even bad. It's just that it only has 134hp and a lot of people and US auto mags are gonna feel that it is underpowered.

The HS drivetrain could have been used at least for North America, or a more powerful non-hybrid petrol engine (a 200hp 2.5L I4 for example), and that would have added to it's appeal. Anyway there are still rumors that more powerful variants of the CT are coming...

pagemaster

I guess time will tell. I personaly doubt there will be other variants.

SLegacy99

Yeah, but Lexus' new aim seems to be hybridizing their new vehicles, save the LFA. Look at the UK where you have to get an RX or GS hybrid. No stand alone petrols. It appears to be working for them.

Anyway, it seems likely that Toyota would pair the 2.5L with HSD as it could do well in a variety of Toyota and Lexus models. Who knows? Perhaps they are cookin up something we don't yet know about, as it does seem like the 2.5L should have been installed in the Camry hybrid by now, given the considerable advantage of the competiton.

Here's a question. Is it possible that the CT could be more efficient than the Prius? My guess would be no. It should be lighter, but it is a luxury car and I'm sure it isn't as aerodynamic as the Prius.

(Cj)

As for the current 2.4L HSD engine, my guess is that Toyota is trying to dump the excess supply of 2.4L I4s before switching everything to the newer 2.5L. By the time the HS is refreshed and the Camry redesigned the 2.4L HSD powerplant should be retired.

Toyota will probably have 3 core hybrid powerplants. The 1.8L which is in the high selling Prius, the CT (plus possible upcoming variants of the CT), the Toyota Auris, and it will be in the Euro Rav4 . The 2.5L HSD, which will be the in the Camry, the HS, and can be used in the US Rav4. And they have the 3.5L HSD which is used in various Toyota and Lexus models.

It doesn't matter if the CT is more fuel efficient than the Prius. People buying a $30K don't buy it because it get's 60mpg. That's what more budget conscious consumers look for. For the CT people in this class are going to see that it only has 134hp. What will make or break the CT is how Lexus markets it...

SLegacy99

I disagree. I think that there are lots of people with plenty of money who buy the Prius for its MPGs, not to save money.

LexFather

I stated that a long time ago. The 2.5 can go in these cars for a "refresh" or a way to keep things fresh another year, a strategy Lexus is using.

If the CT can get 45 MPG I would be happy as that means you can get from 40-50.

My needs are changing and so are my tastes and I am glad Lexus is expanding to maybe match them.

SLegacy99

Yeah, def. a good thing that they got a head start. I have long wanted a WRX, but given my work and my commute and where I live a hybrid would truly be the most logical...though I refuse to give up my stick. CR-Z????? Meh.

LexFather

lol, I feel you (and that damn Hatch Subie WRX Sti now gives me wood with its performance and utility)

SLegacy99

Haha, you know how to cut to the core of me.