Howdy,

I test drove my first ES330 today (a 2004 with the 3MZ engine) and was wondering if some of the things I noticed are normal or not:

• Under heavy to moderate acceleration (like merging on the freeway ramp) I felt a sudden change in power -- ALMOST as if the car kicked down a gear -- but it didn't change gears at all. It reminded me of VTEC kicking in. Should I be able to notice the VVT-i change through the RPM band? Or is something else going on with the car?
• The car rode pretty soft, which is what I want. But I noticed some side-to-side body motion when driving straight over uneven road surfaces, at low speeds. Is that just how this car is, due to the suspension travel needed to soak up bumps?
• I know this is not normal: After I took off, the TRAC OFF, VSC, and the ABS lights came on. I pulled over and restarted the car but the lights came on again about 3 miles later. There was NO check engine light and NO pending codes or trouble codes set. From what I read it sound like there's an ABS sensor going out at one of the wheels. The dealership claims this is normal behavior and can happen when driving over broken pavement -- lol. Yeah, right.

It's a one owner, 97K, dealer maintained car. Timing belt was done in 2016 at 61K miles - so it will need another timing belt next year even though the miles are low (9 years or 90K interval). It also needs a new set of tires -- they are Goodyears with a 2018 date code but are literally shredding apart.

They want $10K -- which, despite the otherwise great condition, is way too much considering the work that needs to be done, IMO. The exterior is decent for the age and the interior is like new. Not a squeak or rattle either. I would love to buy the car but I'm pretty sure they are not going to budge on the price.

Anyway, I'm going to keep looking at ES330s and I may take a shot at seeing if they will come down on the price of this one, but I doubt they will. Mostly, I was wondering about those first two bullet points -- is that normal?

Thanks,

-Nathan

 

This model is known for a "lazy" transmission/throttle response that is likely the effect you felt. TRAC light will come on if you spin the wheels but what you're seeing is like you say probably an ABS sensor issue. I wouldn't put any value into "dealer serviced" if you really like the car take it to an independent mechanic, and make sure the tell the dealer you're doing this so you can watch their reaction.

Do you have all service records? I've driven several ES330's I never noticed the side to side effect. Car has a soft ride for sure but nothing odd like that.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah; I looked up all the service on the Lexus site, using the car's VIN. The main reason why I like to see the service history is because the 3MZ is known for sludging up, if oil changes are not done on time, right? Seeing regular oil changes puts my mind at ease when buying a 20 year old car. The last vehicle I looked at literally had pieces of sludge coming up through the dip-stick. I feel sorry for whoever bought that thing.

I definitely didn't spin the tires when the dash lights came on, so something else is going on there.

And I experienced the lazy transmission, but can live with that. The issue with more power suddenly coming on wasn't a gear change issue though -- I was already accelerating in that gear and then suddenly got a bit more power as the RPMs increased -- as if VVT-i had kicked in. But I can't find anyone else saying they've experienced this same thing. So maybe the car is having another problem.

 

Sludge issue was fixed on the 3MZ, of course regular oil changes are good.
Any record of transmission fluid changes?
Could be the computer thinks you spun the tires bad ABS sensor will do this. Red flag to me is the dealer either doesn't know about the problem or doesn't care. If they drove the car at all they'd have experienced it.
That's probably not an engine problem, the 3MZ in the Highlander with almost the same transmission doesn't have the surging effect like the ES330. It's an ECU programming thing that can be greatly reduced by putting fresh fluid in the transmission. I'm going by what others here have reported here.

Take the car to an Indy shop it's worth spending $100 it can save you a big pile of cash.

 

Thanks again.

It looks like the trans was completely flushed at 62K miles. So all new trans fluid about 36K miles ago. 7K miles ago the original owner also had a "BG fuel and induction service" to "restore fuel efficiency, power, and performance". So maybe the original owner noticed this power issue and this was an attempt to fix it. The car did seem a little low on power for being rated at 225hp, to me -- but this is the only ES330 I've driven so I don't have anything to compare it to.

Yeah, the dealership doesn't care. None of them do. Seeing how they want top dollar for the car, there's a few questionable things about it, and they are unlikely they will come down, I'll probably pass on paying for an inspection of this one. If they don't give two rips about obvious issues with dash lights coming on I'm doubtful anything found in a pre-purchase inspection will carry any weight with them.

 

The dealer won't care, but getting an indy shop to look over the car can save you from buying a lemon. There is no easy way to buy a used car, I flip cars all the time the only rule I have is trust nothing you're told. My advice is if you don't really like the car don't buy it.

 

Thanks.

Yeah, I like the car -- and I don't mind fixing things -- but not at this price. If it didn't have these questionable issues (or was cheaper) I'd go for it.

 

I have an '04 too and I can definitely feel a surge when the vvt does its thing. Normal.

I don't feel that the ride is soft, but paradoxically it does quite the lean in corners; there should not be any side motion while going straight down the road, however.

Ten grand for that car is obscenely over priced! Keep looking as there are many out there and lucky you because PNW cars are rust free so you have plenty of choices. (Someone correct me about the PNW climate...they don't use road salt, right?)

 

Awesome; thanks for the feedback. It felt like VVT-i kicking in to me, too.

Yeah, most cars out here are rust free. We are starting to use salt in some areas of the PNW though, but it's still pretty minimal overall.

The problem is, cars are still VERY over priced in WA and OR -- moreso than the rest of the country. 95% of what is on the market is over priced, clapped out, junk -- with zero reconditioning. And if it's not over priced junk, it may be a car with "good bones", but it's simply WAY over priced -- with some obvious issues (like this ES330). Dealers won't come down on these at all, because they know someone will fall in love and buy it, regardless. These are the really painful ones to pass up, because they are so nice. But it's hard to justify something so extremely over priced that needs obvious work -- just based on principal.

 

The problem is not only VVT-i it is throttle mapping along with transmission control etc. if you drive a Highlander with the same engine it doesn't have the lazy throttle problem. First generation Highlander is the best used vehicle value IMO, but not everyone wants a SUV.

 

Are all ES330s plagued with this problem? Aside from a trans fluid change, which you stated earlier, can anything else be done? Did toyota come out with a re-flash of the ECU for better transmission logic?

 

There is no update from Toyota that cures this problem. There is an aftermarket box that tries to fix the problem from what I've read mixed results. Highlander's I've driven were AWD so maybe that is why the programming is different and by extension better. I've never driven a FWD Highlander in fact I've never seen one in person.

I personally would not own an ES330 the throttle response is too unpredictable.

 

It is possible your side to side thing is needing new front struts. Mine felt like that when I first got it. It felt unsure at highway speeds over uneven pavement. Too Soft.

My 2004 also has an occasional weird shift (surge or jerk feel) on acceleration. Like a delayed shift. The rest of the time it is perfect.

I've been going through the same thing here. Been looking for months. Everything from not being able to act on something fast enough to mostly dead beat or non-responsive sellers on
Facebook, Craigslist and Autotrader. Down south here, your not finding anything nice with lowish miles unless you spend around $7K+. Trucks or SUV's $9K. And there's still some junk at that price.

 

Thanks. I think I can live with the trans slowness -- I do 95% freeway and just putter around town. If I go on a second test drive I'll try to get more stop-and-go driving in and make sure it's not a problem. A good portion of my first test drive was freeway. I did gun-it quite a few times and it was slow as hell to kick down, especially merging from very slow speeds on a crowded on-ramp. But it's also a 20 year old car -- so I'm not expecting modern day performance. Also: My last car was a 2016 BMW 328i xDrive with a very healthy amount of turbo lag, and the typical BMW dead spot in the gas pedal, just off idle. So my brain is probably already adapted to unpredictable, slow down-shifts -- especially in low-speed or off-throttle situations.

Mostly looking for something with a relatively soft ride and reliable. The ride seems softer than a comparable Camry, from what I can tell. Definitely softer than the BMW I had to give up for medical reasons. I've fallen ill with many medical issues; one of which is a cerebellum problem -- and need a vehicle that doesn't transmit a lot of body motion into the car -- especially the freeway. I couldn't quite get the BMW there, despite trying multiple sets of shocks. So I sold it at the top of the car-market -- and now using the money left over to pay for medical bills and get rehabilitation for my cerebellum (insurance does not cover this). I don't drive much anymore except to and from doc appointments, but when I do it's mostly freeway. If/when my health gets better maybe my driving priorities will change. But, like I said: looking for something with a relatively soft ride and reliable. LS430s have gone stratospheric and I've yet to find a nice Avalon under $15K - and even that one needed a new PS rack. Hence, have started exploring the ES330s now.

 

Thanks.

Did the side-to-side issue go away with new rear shocks / struts?

What set of circumstances created the weird shifting? For example: What set of steps would you take to try to reproduce it?