ES330 vs Acura TL
11-16-03, 07:02 PM
#1
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ES330 vs Acura TL
I am considering purchasing either a 2004 ES330 or a TL as I live in Canada and I want a front wheel drive car for better winter performance. I find myself torn by the luxury and refinement of the ES and the sportier look and feel of the TL. Any thoughts?
11-16-03, 09:30 PM
#4
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for me, the es330 seems to make more sense than the TL. sure, the TL has gobs of horsepower and goes pretty damn quick in a straight line but id probably get bored of it after a couple of months. i think its more satisfyin to own an es330, especially in the long run because of its quiet cabin and high quality feel. if i owned a TL, id be kinda dissapointed becuase it may be fast but there are cars out there half the price that are much faster and more satisfying to drive. at least with a es330, id be satisfied how its smoother and quiter than cars twice its price. 
11-16-03, 10:07 PM
#5
They seem to me like different cars catering to different needs. The ES for someone who wants a serene ride and to be pampered in LS-like luxury. The TL for those who want a sports sedan in both look and feel.
11-16-03, 11:27 PM
#6
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Besides price, kinda apples and oranges here. ES 330 is the ultimate in luxury for the price. The TL is a nice compromise between luxo/sport. The TL is also a good 6 inches smaller than the ES 330. And at Acura-TL.com, there is a sticky to all the 04 problems already. Also, Lexus service ownsz Acura service, something to consider (Focus loaners or RX 330 loaners for example). The Tl is sportier but high HP FWD cars make no sense to me. Looks are in the eyes of the beholder, neither is a favorite of mine.
11-16-03, 11:54 PM
#7
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Fix Honda/Acura's customer service and solve the transmission crisis 1,000 signatures
http://www.petitiononline.com/acura/petition.html
Well this is embarrassing. Benz may not be so bad after all.
To: American Honda Motor Company, INC
Acura/Honda has had a long and respected history of excellent service and world-class products. The Acura brand was created in the US to give service, support, and products that exceed those of the Honda nameplate, at an expense above their Honda cousins. Distinction is given to Acura models by features, performance, and service that exceed expectations and come with a price that is not matched in its competition. Value and excellent service - "precision crafted performance", are what sell Acuras.
You have damaged your credibility, service, and respected past with your handling of the transmission failures on your vehicles.
At no other time in my knowledge has a failure of the same breadth affected American Honda. By your own admission, odyssey minivans, TL sedans, CL coupes, Accord sedans and coupes, Prelude coupes are all affected - 5 vehicles across two brands.
Your own spokesman, Kurt Antonius, is quoted in USAToday by saying, "We wanted to make sure our customers still believe in Honda, and we didn't want them to have any lingering doubts about our quality". Unfortunately, the damage is done. Before the warranty extension was announced and you publicly acknowledged your issues with the cars that many of us had been dealing with for over a year. I personally suffered through one transmission replacement in my 2001 CL Type-S that took almost 30 days to replace, and then a replacement transmission in my 2003 TL Type-S that thankfully took only 3 days to replace.
American Honda has some repairing to do. People are still untrusting of these products. The owners of these vehicles feel that failure is imminent on their transmissions. They are selling your product and buying Infinities, Lexuses and BMWs. You are losing brand loyalty from customers who have owned multiple Acuras, and that will affect the bottom line.
How is this situation rectified? First, you must enact a program internally to punish dealers who give terrible service. Dealers use bribery in the form of tanks of gas, free oil changes, and other items that will make their customers agree to give high marks on your survey. You must know the results are tainted. Create a system where the customer is explicitly asked if the dealer offered anything to them in exchange for higher ratings.
Service departments are the most guilty of poor service - which is quite unfortunate. On several instances, members of www.acuraworld.com have been dealt with in the most unprofessional of ways regarding their transmission failures. One member who approached a dealer on multiple instances regarding the eminent failure of his transmission was treated with such disrespect that he vowed to never go to that dealer again even though it was the closest to his home. Some weeks later, that same member had a transmission failure that nearly caused a serious accident.
Service departments need to be trained, tested with Honda "secret shoppers", and then trained again. Secret shoppers should be trained to test the service department on a very challenging topic where they will be apt to respond in a negative manner even though company policy dictates otherwise. Post these secret shopper results as well as any other applicable results, on your website - or better yet, post each dealer's results in their showroom and service areas.
Finally, your own customer service department needs to have some teeth. By their own admission, there is nothing they can do to ensure that dealers who deal badly with customers get punished. Give them power to help in punishing bad dealers. Give them power to make the changes that will make your customers satisfied and restore their brand loyalty. And next time a wide-reaching failure occurs, and there will be a next time, respect your customers who say there is a problem. Deal with them individually. Admit if you know of an issue.
As a 3-car owner and loyal Acura customer, I urge you to make changes and ensure that there is clear communication of those changes. Participate in forums - don't just read them. That is how an entity to which people are loyal responds to waning customer confidence.
Sign this petition if you are a present or past Honda or Acura owner of the affected models. This is our voice - our vote. Your opinions matter.
This petition originally started on www.acuraworld.com in this thread: http://www.acuraworld.com/forums/sh...&threadid=17445 . There are many comments by forum members there as well as general members of the Honda and Acura communities.
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
http://www.petitiononline.com/acura/petition.html
Well this is embarrassing. Benz may not be so bad after all.
To: American Honda Motor Company, INC
Acura/Honda has had a long and respected history of excellent service and world-class products. The Acura brand was created in the US to give service, support, and products that exceed those of the Honda nameplate, at an expense above their Honda cousins. Distinction is given to Acura models by features, performance, and service that exceed expectations and come with a price that is not matched in its competition. Value and excellent service - "precision crafted performance", are what sell Acuras.
You have damaged your credibility, service, and respected past with your handling of the transmission failures on your vehicles.
At no other time in my knowledge has a failure of the same breadth affected American Honda. By your own admission, odyssey minivans, TL sedans, CL coupes, Accord sedans and coupes, Prelude coupes are all affected - 5 vehicles across two brands.
Your own spokesman, Kurt Antonius, is quoted in USAToday by saying, "We wanted to make sure our customers still believe in Honda, and we didn't want them to have any lingering doubts about our quality". Unfortunately, the damage is done. Before the warranty extension was announced and you publicly acknowledged your issues with the cars that many of us had been dealing with for over a year. I personally suffered through one transmission replacement in my 2001 CL Type-S that took almost 30 days to replace, and then a replacement transmission in my 2003 TL Type-S that thankfully took only 3 days to replace.
American Honda has some repairing to do. People are still untrusting of these products. The owners of these vehicles feel that failure is imminent on their transmissions. They are selling your product and buying Infinities, Lexuses and BMWs. You are losing brand loyalty from customers who have owned multiple Acuras, and that will affect the bottom line.
How is this situation rectified? First, you must enact a program internally to punish dealers who give terrible service. Dealers use bribery in the form of tanks of gas, free oil changes, and other items that will make their customers agree to give high marks on your survey. You must know the results are tainted. Create a system where the customer is explicitly asked if the dealer offered anything to them in exchange for higher ratings.
Service departments are the most guilty of poor service - which is quite unfortunate. On several instances, members of www.acuraworld.com have been dealt with in the most unprofessional of ways regarding their transmission failures. One member who approached a dealer on multiple instances regarding the eminent failure of his transmission was treated with such disrespect that he vowed to never go to that dealer again even though it was the closest to his home. Some weeks later, that same member had a transmission failure that nearly caused a serious accident.
Service departments need to be trained, tested with Honda "secret shoppers", and then trained again. Secret shoppers should be trained to test the service department on a very challenging topic where they will be apt to respond in a negative manner even though company policy dictates otherwise. Post these secret shopper results as well as any other applicable results, on your website - or better yet, post each dealer's results in their showroom and service areas.
Finally, your own customer service department needs to have some teeth. By their own admission, there is nothing they can do to ensure that dealers who deal badly with customers get punished. Give them power to help in punishing bad dealers. Give them power to make the changes that will make your customers satisfied and restore their brand loyalty. And next time a wide-reaching failure occurs, and there will be a next time, respect your customers who say there is a problem. Deal with them individually. Admit if you know of an issue.
As a 3-car owner and loyal Acura customer, I urge you to make changes and ensure that there is clear communication of those changes. Participate in forums - don't just read them. That is how an entity to which people are loyal responds to waning customer confidence.
Sign this petition if you are a present or past Honda or Acura owner of the affected models. This is our voice - our vote. Your opinions matter.
This petition originally started on www.acuraworld.com in this thread: http://www.acuraworld.com/forums/sh...&threadid=17445 . There are many comments by forum members there as well as general members of the Honda and Acura communities.
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
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11-17-03, 03:05 PM
#8
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I had the same dilemma two months ago, and finally decided on the ES330, just more feature for your money I think. The new TL is about the same price as the new ES330 since acura only discount the TL by about $500 or so from the MSRP now. So, for about the same $$, the Lexus name does sound a lot better, you'll noticed people respect you a little more since you're driving a lexus or oppose to an Acura. Beside, the lexus is a lot quieter.
11-19-03, 02:25 AM
#9
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Not to be a hater, but I like the TL's better.
Our cars win the "luxury" of entry-luxury; but the interior of the 2000+ TL can be beat for super sexyness. Makes me quiver just thinking about them.
(That can you can actually find stuff for the TL motor! <chuckles>)
Our cars win the "luxury" of entry-luxury; but the interior of the 2000+ TL can be beat for super sexyness. Makes me quiver just thinking about them.
(That can you can actually find stuff for the TL motor! <chuckles>)
11-19-03, 06:01 PM
#10
____________________________
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Toysrme
Our cars win the "luxury" of entry-luxury; but the interior of the 2000+ TL can be beat for super sexyness. Makes me quiver just thinking about them.
____________________________
did you mean to say "...2000+ TL can't be beat...." ?
Personally, I prefer the subtle/soft sexyness of the ES.
steviej
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Toysrme
Our cars win the "luxury" of entry-luxury; but the interior of the 2000+ TL can be beat for super sexyness. Makes me quiver just thinking about them.
____________________________
did you mean to say "...2000+ TL can't be beat...." ?
Personally, I prefer the subtle/soft sexyness of the ES.
steviej
Last edited by steviej; 11-19-03 at 06:03 PM.
11-20-03, 02:14 AM
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No steviej the Lex interior can't be mached afa luxury & the ride for comfort.
I just like the *style* of the 2000+ TL interiors better than the ES's.
I'd rate the ES second for interior style. Still tops for comfort however.
I just like the *style* of the 2000+ TL interiors better than the ES's.
I'd rate the ES second for interior style. Still tops for comfort however.
11-20-03, 07:14 AM
#13
Super Moderator
Transmission problems in Acura's only with the auto's. I would only get the new TL in 6 speed manual, which I'll personally pick over the ES330. So it depends on whether you want the ultimate in luxury in its price range in the ES330, or the sportier look & feel of the new TL.
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