su24

I've heard of an engine flush - has anyone done this? I'm about to change my oil and want to know if there is any way to clean out the engine oil deposits before I do this.

pkchin

I've sone some research and there are many different options. They have those machince engine flushes (Bilstein - BG44) systems that cost around $100. The Bilstein is supposed to backflush and drain out through the drain plug. I am a little worried that something like this may loosen up too much gunk and possible restrict the oil screen.

Then there are the additive, which I feel most are pretty corrosive (abrasive?) and probably shouldn't be left in for an extended period of time so I am a little concenerd of this.

After researching (mainly from a oil type forum - not sure If I can point to other links as I don't know if this is proper forum ettiquette, but PM me and I can send the link) I chose to go with a product called auto-rx.

Application seems kind of a long proccess but it is what I want as I feel it is the safest:

I sent the following email to the compay on the application (with its responce)and you'll see what I mean by the proccess being involved, but some products (like Zaino- made me a believer and that I feel the effort is worth it for the results):

"BTW, this is my situation and what I plan to do, please advise
if you see anything wrong:

I have a a 1998 lexus es300 with one of the infamous sludge
monster engine. It has 45,000 miles and exhibits no problems,
I am performing the auto-rx as a preventive type maintenance
and if I get better performance I will be happy.

I have recently started using Amsoil 5-w30 synthetic. At 5,000
to 6,000 miles with this oil, I will 1). change out only the
oil filter and add my first application of auto-rx (I will top
off with non-synthetic).

Drive 1,500 to 1,800 miles and 2) replace oil filter and oil
(non-synthetic) and drive another 2,000 miles. Can you
recommend the rinse oil? I know the site bobistheoilguy says
to use low esthers, but I don't know enough about oils and
their formulations to know which one to pick.

3)Put new non-synthetic oil and new filter with bottle of
auto-rx. Drive 1,000 miles.
4). Rinse by changing oil and filter and drive 2-3000 more miles.
5) be happy and go back to preferred oil

Besides what rinse oil to use, is an oil filter that filters
down to smaller particles (like Mobil1 filters) better or I
was just going to add a supertech filter.

Thanks for your advice.

Response: First, thank you for contacting Auto-Rx and asking us for an overview of your plan, this is where you get factual information. 1. You don't want to mix a synthetic oil with a non-synthetic oil. 2. As you stated you have an engine prone to sludge. Your wisest course of action is to use the Auto-Rx Application "Special Instructions for Heavy Sludge And Oil Burning Engines". Go to www.auto-rx.com and click on application link and then link for "Special Instructions" and print it out. Follow these instructions and you will be more than pleased with your Auto-Rx application. Your Lexus will stay free of sludge by using this proven application."

Toysrme

Never use oil additives. If you're using the correct blend of oil in the first place; an oil additive has done nothing but thrown off the blend the company specifically came up with for your application.

su24

So how did the auto-rx work out? I have been told a number of times never to put any additives in the car. This one seems like it might be an exception. I have a 92 es and use oil for higher mileage cars, but would like to see if I can remove any sludge that has collected in the safest way possible.

mburnickas

I also have a 98 ES300 and had 42K miles when I got it. It now has over 70K. I have used Amsoil since 1994 in all cars/trucks/tractors/motorcycles. It works great; but if you show me another oil that performs better and/or lower price I will switch. I just state that since I feel, as of today it is the best I can find.

First off how do you know you have the “sludge” problem? Did you pull off the valve covers? Did you take the dealers word? I would not add the auto-rx but that is me. I would let the Amsoil (with its own additive and detergents) clean the fluid passages and lines by itself. Just use their filters and a 10-30 and change filter at 5K filter and then oil and filter at 10K miles There is nothing wrong with adding synthetic and non-synthetic together. The only thing is that you will not get the benefit on all synthetic. Amsoil is ok with all regular oils.

Also what filters will you be running? Amsoil oil filters are the best out there (Mobil is very close & Fleetguard is also very close). Oil Filters are not rated for the smallest particles it filters out it goes by how much and at what %. Does it filter down to 5 microns at 90% or at 80%? I also think that Baldwin makes Amsoil’s filters but I would use Amsoil’s since the price will more then likely be the same.

I have heard of that site (bobistheoilguy) and it is like the typical website on oils. He thinks he is an oil “god” but I would ask what other people have used etc. No one knows it all and I would ask other Club Lexus users. They are wonderful on helping people.

Additives are very bad for oil. I do not care what they say. They are probably owned by Slick 50! :

Lastly, the problem I feel is that if you are this additive it will dis-lodge all the sludge, cooked oil (burnt oil), etc and might cases an oil passage to become blocked, cause something to stick etc. I would just let the oils additive clean it up at its own pase and therefore land in the oil filter.

pkchin

Cool, I bought 4 gallons of the Amsoil 5w-30 (I think the 2000) so I could get a cheaper price). Weird thing is that after I put the synthetic in, I saw a "decrease" in MPG. I doubt its the synthetic, probably the gas company changing over to winter blend. How do you like Amsoil? and how long before you change it out?

For the most part, never put additive in as they don't work. Slick 50 states that their use of "teflon" is the differentiator. I never said I had a sludge problem. No one did, I am doing this as a maintenance type of thing . And instead of paying to have a performing one of those Machine flushes, I chose this method. The original poster asked about them and I gave my thoughts, thats al, not saying he should do it, or do one over the other.

As for the auto-rx, from some of the sites I seen, there is one guy who has posted pics (again, I don't know if I can point to his site), but he pulled off the valve cover and it is definately cleaning it out. He also took some compression stats that look impressive.

Too soon for me to tell, as i said, it will take a little time before I get results, I am not goint to pull off my valve covers like the other guy, but I will monitor MPG usage, see if my tick tick ticking (valve clearance?) goes away and take compressions stats of the front three cylinders (I want to be able to quantify any improvements,but I am kinda busy - OK , ok lazy, too kill myself over this).

I really considered the Bilstein flush, but decided on what I thought would have less chance to harmful (not to mention cheaper). There are tons of testimonials, but that really didn't convince me until I saw the pics with the valve cover off.

mburnickas

So far in the last 9 years of use I have never seen an increase in mileage. They say it increases but I have yet to see it in my quick calculations down to 3 places decimal.

My first run in all my cars is change the oil filter at 5 months and then the oil and filter at the 10 month mark. The oil should be darker then usually since it as cleaned a lot of crude in the engine. After that I do the 6 month (oil filter) and oil & filter at 12 months. I use their regular synthetic 5-30 since my wife’s takes the same as per the manual. Never had any oil problems and I test oil every (2) years just to see what is going on with the properties of the oil.

My fault, I though it said you have the sludge problem….no biggy. I would think that if you hear the valves moving it has “slop” or too much clearance or oil is too thin. I would have to go with the valve clearance is not correct. Lexus engines are REALLY quick and should not make any noise. Hell mine you can’t even hear.

Lastly, I have never had any problems with dealers using “other” oil. They do not mind as long as I have a record of it. I keep wonderful records on my cars so I know what I have done and when. This is not even an issue. Also I do not get way some people get all worked up over that extended oil drains. It is VERY hard to cause harm to an engine using oil never mind a synthetic; but the engine must be running at 100% design level to use extended drains. So if you have a bad fuel injector for example, thus putting more fuel in oil, you can’t do extended drains nor would you want to.

pkchin

So your oil change intervals are based more on time than actual mileage? I was going to change out the first time with synthetic at 6 months or 6k miles. After that, not sure if I would go beyond 7.5 miles with the synthtetic, just me, I'm sure it could go longer.

mburnickas

I only put on 15 to 20K per year. The max I could go is 6 months or 12K on filter and 25K on oil. Well below what they state as the max.

I would go 2X what you are willing to go since you are wasting money.

Toysrme

Oil changing is determined by how much work has been placed on the engine. The catch is that the oil is only good in the car for so long, before it dosen't work properly.

That's why it says 3000 miles OR three months. (which should be followed for oils that are not full synthetics)

I'm not an Amsoil junkie. (no offince was meant) However must good, fully syntetic oils can stand 7500-10,000 miles of use, so long as you don't constantly engage in the activities that cause wear on the oil. (maily short trips and heavy use of the engine before it has warmed up, along withs top and go driving...)

Many full synthetics can last up to 15,000 miles now, however just because th oil dosen't break down until 15,000 miles dosen't mean you long since should have changed the filter! (If you take the time to change the filter. Change the oil sheesh!)

Personally I'm using Maxlife and going 7,500 miles between oil/filter changes. No problems and no wasted money/time.

Toysrme

mburnickas
The average for vehicle miles for quite a while now is calculated at 12,000 miles a year. That's OK, I always looked at it if the RPM is over 0 the clock is ticking down. All we can do is slow the clock!

mburnickas

Well I am not an oil expert but oil with the proper filter can last an to infinity (or longer then you and me). Again synthetic oil will not break down however, it will become dirty and need to be filtered. My friend has a 94 dodge (12 valve I think) Cummins and it still on the original oil! He is using a bypass with regular filter. Not to bad with wonderful results after 190,000 miles. .

I also disagree with the 3K mile or three months. That is/was never proven and is entirely a moneymaker. If you look in ANY manual for normal driving it is 7,000 to 8,000 miles. Not to many people do the severe driving. I personally have never seen anything below 7,000 miles on Ford, MB, LEXUS, olds gas engines. Hell in my GSXR1100 the manual states replace the filter every OTHER year and oil every year or 10,000 miles (that rev’s up to 12,000 RPM). Click below and then on "my gsxr1100" http://home.comcast.net/~mburnickas/

Small trips, stop-and-go will not shorten the life of a good synthetic oil that has a good base stock and good additive package. I use Amsoil 20-50 motorcycle oil in my gixxer (GSXR1100 pushing 145 HP) and I start the engine a lot since it will get VERY hot in the summer if idling too long. So far to date I have had only 1.57% fuel dilution in the oil. That is great, so the oil is working. Only done 4 oil changes in 9+ years and the inside gears and pan surface are PERFECT!

I am not a Amsoil dealer (I was) so I could careless what people say. I know what I have used and what works. No saying this is the best oil hands down; just from what I have seen and from oil test results it is the best bang for the dollar to date. Never know what tomorrow holds.

I used to like Mobil 1 till they stopped saying good for 25,00 miles; hence, make more $$$$$. Now there base-stock is good but they could be better and was better.

Heavy use on engine will just put more stress on cam, pumps etc. Nothing major if you drive slow. Using a good synthetic will help that since it will flow smoothly at low temps. I also do not like the “pour point” test they (anyone) does since they are BS. You as the customer wants the pumping temp so that you know the oil is flowing through the pump.

I also disagree with the change to filter so change the oil. If the oil is fine and the filter caught the particles in the oil why change it? You are wasting money. I do not know about you but I work hard for my money so I want it to last as long as possible. I have done very long extended drains on my last truck (ford powerstroke) and after triple the miles on the oil (5,000 miles for a diesel regular due to the poor diesel quailty) the oil test were great. All I did was change the 2 qt oil filter.

I do not know what “maxlife” is but if it is more $$$ then regular oil and you go the standard miles per the manual, why? You do not gain anything unless you drive on dusty roads, 10 or less miles, stop-and-go driving.

Buster

After doing a lot of research, I've come to believe that switching to a synthetic oil after engine break-in and changing the oil and filter every 6k to 7.5k miles is the way to go. At $22.50 a 5 quart container of Mobil 1 at Walmart, I see the two yearly oil and filter changes (I drive 12-14k miles a year) as cheap insurance.

I don't buy all the hype about Amsoil, either. It's probably no better or worse for your engine than Mobil 1. I don't see any discounts being offered anywhere on Amsoil. I haven't looked around for the best prices on the other top synthetics, but Walmart's discount isn't too hard to take.

(I just found a price of under $24 for 6 quarts of Mobil 1at BJ's Wholesale.)

pkchin

I'm not a dealer just an end-user and I feel that Amsoil is the best choice for me. Of course cost is an issue, but I was able to purchase in bulk at approximately $4.75 a quart (no tax but there is shipping). I am going to take mrburks advice and probably only run the 6-7.5k miles on the initial application, but then after that will go probably around 12.5k (or somewhere around there as I drive that amount yearly) with a filter change and a top off.

Cost will then be comparable (or cheaper as I will only need 2 oil filters as opposed to 4) as well as I will change out 2 times versus 4 and dump less oil and filters. Mrburk, you mentioned that you perform an analysis evcery 2 years to see what shape things are in, sounds like you have been pretty happy with the results, can you share that with us? This will give me peace of mind.

Also, I will use Redline D4 ATF ( I thought about the Amsoil, but they covered too broad a range of specs for my comfort level). I was able to pick that up at a little more than what mobil 1 is available locally. I want the synthetic ATF more for the cold starts in NE than anything else.

As someone else stated, I am not trying to convince anyone of using these products, I am just sharing my thoughts an experience, most of my friends think I am overdoing it, but then again, they would not buy a Lexus either and some feel that there is no need to change ATF at all. Heck, if thats what works for them, then more power to them.

Toysrme

My point is that for $5 you can go to a Toyota dealer and get a Camry oil filter.

If you're on the engine changing the oil, there is NO excuse for not taking 45 seconds to change the filter. That's kind of a silly waste of cheap insurance.