Toysrme

That's a horrible arguement.

Using that train of thought makes you wonder why we ever got out of the sticks seeing how "every change in history is now unsafe".

Kohinoor

iTrader: (22)

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cry for acceptance? oh yes... i desperately need approval from people with stock es300s
(not trying to sound elitist, but who are you to guide me with what modifications i do)

it pretty much comes down to people with stock cars telling me it looks gay... well.. id like for some people to do something different that no ones seen on an es300 and see what kind of reaction they get... most likely negative... anything i do to my car thats new or hasnt been done by one of yall.. no one likes..

i probably wont post any more pictures or anything of my car anymore.. its worthless to do so

Toysrme

OK. Here's where I stand.

Looks: I like the look... Liked it on the last 20 slammed 5.0 Mustangs I've seen & I like it here. Atleast it's different.
Handling: Is improved over 18*7.5 & will improve a large deal when a proper
rear sway bar is installed!
Safety: there is no safety issue... As long as he's not rubbing in the back he's fine.

******************

If anyone would like to debate on why I am correct in Handling & Safety points made above, I suggest you study as much as you want, as I will shoot any theories as to why I am wrong in the foot.

cam2Xrunner

The wheels look nice on the car. I personally would get the same wheels on the front as on the back and do a front and rear widebody conversion. Have all the same size tires and an upgraded rear swaybar. This would look nice and be very functional, and also SAFER than wider tires on the rear.

AusLex300

Ok, I've simply had enough of you Hoe Bag.. Lets not beat around the bush here.. I dont like you, never will, and happy I dont know you in person.. In saying that, I do feel that you post simply for reaction sake only.. You are an attention seeker, no doubt about it.. You are also a very insecure person. This showes greatly with your snide remarks and constant arrogant opinions..A reason why you couldnt handle the heat of Car Domain and left with hanky in hand... Yes I do have a stock ES. (You didnt break my heart with that comment pinhead!). And yes I do have an opinion on certain subjects.. But I also see things through the eyes of a husband and father. And so as much as I would like to have a nice show car to show off with.. I simply prefer to be safety consious rather than do silly things with my car in order to gain a little more attention that lasts no more than a few minutes or so.... Maybe one day when you grow up a bit, you might just realise that people are not really having a go at you, rather adding some usefull advice to save you any bother later.... I dont nessesarily mean my advice either... But everyones allowed to thier fair share of trial and error, so fill your boots mate!... To the people that dont agree with me on certain issues.. No probs, I dont begrudge you for it...

Chris

XenonES3

Toysrme, do you care to elaborate about why a staggered setup is acceptable on a FWD drive car (with physics)?

My friend has the Hoebag attitude (I don't care, it's for looks) and put some 18x8.5 F 18x10 R staggered wheels on his A4 despite everyone's discouragement. However, his A4 is equipped with the Quattro AWD system which is rear-wheel drive biased but the front-nose weight counters the RWD bias giving the A4 a slight understeer, much like a FWD car.

Several thousand miles later, we are all having the last laugh as his staggered setup has killed his differential.

Every automaker spends hours upon hours (and countless dollars) fine tuning the best wheel/tire setup to give their cars an optimum balance between ride comfort and handling. Many of us go ahead and use larger diameter wheels but keep the actual wheel+tire diameter as close to stock as possible. Additionally, some of us opt for wider wheels+tires as well and pay for it in reduced ride quality, but the difference in traction is not enough to damage any of the car's components.


The vast difference in traction levels between a FWD drive car designed for 15x6 wheels all the way around versus that same car with 19x8.5F and 19x9.5R will not only screw up the physics of the car but also damage mechanical components very soon.

That's my take on it.....

Thanks,

Rohan

Toysrme

You said it yourself. All wheel drive...

Keep our case in mind.
We have added a maximum of 11.8% traction up front 11.8%, and 21% in the rear PER TIRE.
We have NOT given the front end of the car any LESS traction.

A bad example is a popular mod done on this board. That is giving the car a front sway bar. This is a huge no-no in a front wheel drive car, as you need to understand that you add a larger sway bar to keep that end of the car flatter in a turn AND give MORE traction to the OTHER end of the car!

Our car is an exception, being that we have *so* much body roll, a front sway bar helps keep the front end from overloading the inside tire more than it gives more traction to the rear of the car. Meaning handling is improved.

If anyone wanted seriously improved handling, upgrade your rear sway bar as well and add that much more traction up front.
*************************

Back to our case. As I have stated many times, we still have not taked traction away from the front end. We have added some to the front, and alot to the rear. He will still loose traction on the front end first, but remember that he now 11.8% more tire surface over all in the front to load up which is a great help to the outside tire in a FWD car.

The addition of a rear sway bar to add MORE grip to the front would only enhance this fact, helping the rear trailer tires loose traction before the front, or atleast you can undo a good deal of understeer/oversteer if you are careful balancing front/rear sway bars.

Now I just said that above, but remember we have actually reduced the oversteer on his car slightly by giving him 8.5 front tires. Where Hoebag will have trouble IMHO is finding a rear sway bar for a Camry, and finding one that will work well with the front one. (So little change is needed for big changes)

Trust me... If you know your car's cornering limit because you stay at the limit, you can notice a 1mm diameter differance in a sway bar. ESPECIALLY if it's on the rear of a FWD car!

HeoBag finding a RSB is not essential to his setup. However he stands to gain an even higher improvement in his handling than the rest of us do.




btw Xenon that's the first thing google turns up in a search. Nice friend! I have 0 experiance with Audi, so I'll just tell you what I think. I think he didn't keep the diameter the same somehow. An in depth search in the Audiworld forums showed that as long as the diameter of the wheels stay the same, there should be no problem.
(You need to do a deep search and take some time, otherwise you find people doing 18 & 19 setups that are all broken)

I'd do it with an A4 if I had the money... Looks awsome! Then I'd add rear sway to give the front end more traction and reduce that stock understeer to only show up at the limit.


A side effect is that now it's very difficult to slide the back end out.
***
The front/rear needs to be turning the same speed. This why you don't tow an all wheel drive car; you have to put them on a flat-bed. Front tires not mvoing, rear tires moving quickly. <destroyed differential>.

Any problems on that forum associated with it, keep in mind probably only 5 car tuners in 100 actually can explain why sway bars work and what they actually improve. (I just taught you guys above, so don't go running off not knowing anymore!)

Toysrme

btw a correction I should just go ahead and make... You guys are not adding front sway bars, you're adding front tower braces.

I challange anyone that's got a front tower brace and thought having a stiffer suspension made a huge differance in handling. Go test out a sway bar setup. btw I do agree some times that the automaker knows best... If they want X brand oil, there's a reason! Use them! On the other side, automakers have to make compomise everywhere. Suspension, engine, interior...

They never asked me how I wanted my car setup, only I know that.
I'll do a review of the rear sway I have later.

Kohinoor

iTrader: (22)

toysrme, you rock dude

The_Hitman

This thread is a little ridiculous...

jhenty

what does it matter with the staggered look? I dont know anything about this. I think many of you here fail to see hoebags objectives. Hes not looking to do something normal or ordinary. What makes him different is that he has one of the only es's around thats really modified. I respect the work he has done to make it a show car. Sometimes everyone takes his comments too seriously and I'll havto say that he doesn't take contructive criticism very well. But hey not many of us do when its our cars we are talking about. As we always say, to each their own. Like it or not, you havto respect that hes willing to try something different. Personally hoebag I love your car and wish I had a second gen es so I could make it look similar. Keep up the original good work.

Technics

The car looks good HoeBag, of course it would be more functional if the car was RWD but still looks good none the less.

Kohinoor

iTrader: (22)

thank you so much

you are one of the few people on here who actually understand me

Lexus007

Hoebag u got a nice setup. No worries just keep us updated.

AusLex300

I cant speak for show cars in the US, but here in Japan, the VIP style car is sometimes not what it seems.. For the people that say they want to try something that is a little different are not wrong in wanting to do it, or try it.. As for here in Japan, alot of the cars that you see look amazing, and the new things that they do are really superb.. But if you get to a show early, you can see just how many cars are designed just for show.. They turn up on the back of a truck, and they leave the same way.. They are not built for driving, but are fully functional.. Just not functional for daily driving.. So my arguement is not one of saying that someone is silly for trying, or wanting to try to do something unique. But rather if it is for show, but yet still a daily driver. Then safety should always be considered first.. If you want something for show that will blow peoples minds, and change the whole design of what was intended. Then put it on a truck and go show it!... If you want to drive it, and something happens down the road.. Then all I have said all along is, just think of certain things before you do it.. It may look good now, but may also cause problems later...

Chris