flipside909

Yes this is true for your 2ND belt change...not first. Once again, it's preventive maintenance...as it is NOT required unless it's due.

Trexus

I can also attest to lexusk8 regarding the water pump. When I brought my ES to have the timing belt replaced at 90K the lexus service people advised me that it was not necessary to change the waterpump. So I saved some money. Then when I brought my ES to replace my timing belt at 180K, they said the same thing. My waterpump is still in good condition. I'm a light driver and I am very easy on my car. I'm already at roughly over 209K miles. I will replace my timing belt and waterpump at 270K miles, this time I think it would be wise to have the waterpump replaced.

flipside909

My sentiments exactly. well said.

LexusDaisy

I stumbled on this topic last night. My ES has 115,000 miles. Also thought it was a non-interferance engine so I wasn't too concerned.

Tomorrow I am having belt replaced; will cost $385. My garage guy says to replace belt every 60,000 miles. Showed me a broken belt and a box of bent and broken valves from another ES that broke at 104,000 miles. Bill was about $3000 to fix.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. This is a great board!

spxChrome

$385 to fix. Man were is that garage at. My dealership wants $1,200 - *sigh* how much is a new engine

flipside909

try this place for a good used engine: www.kwcengine.com

spxChrome

lol...don't be jinxing me now... i'm not going to look

flipside909

I forgot to also add...regarding the write up.... the 3VZ-E engine that was pictured has had a history of water pump failure problems which is why it was mentioned well. The 3VZ-E V6 was a 150hp SOHC V6 used in many Toyota pickup and 4Runner models from 1988 to 1995. The 3VZ-E is closely related to the 3VZ-FE found in the Camry/ES 92-93 (same common block) but they were different. The 3VZ-FE, 1MZ-FE and 3MZ-FE engines have never had those common problems that the 3VZ-E had.

lexusondubs

iTrader: (9)

your dealership is taking you for a ride i had the timing belt changed and the normal fee is $4-500 bux if your at 90k as long as you baby the car you still have a bit of leaway not saying go 10k more miles but you have a little time

amf1932

LexusDaisy-

In your profile you said that you own a '96ES. In that case you DON'T have an 'Interference' engine.

Here's a chart that'll explain it:
http://skillcentre.com/lexus.html

gserep1

I finished my timing belt on my 99 GS4 today, and I can truly say that I felt it could have gone quite a bit longer.

I have peace of mind, but I think we may be changing too soon. I did my belt on a previous 99 GS4 last year and it looked good too. Thecar I have now one was built earlier..(December 1998) so I wanted to be sure to get to it. WHAT A SUPRISE.

I also did both lower tensioner bearings, tensioner, thermostat and all O rings. Another thing is the cooling system. The previous owner of this car had the coolant changed every 30,000 miles, and it was definitely evident in the condition of the system. Absolutely NO scum or film in the system ANYWHERE. When I pulled off the water pump, it looked just as good as the new one I replaced it with. The O rings were pliable, and could have been reused. As I took off all this obviously "good" stuff, I wondered JUST how long this stuff COULD have lasted.

I tell you that if this water pump were mounted on the outside of the engine instead of inside, I would have taken it to failure. In my opinion, I think that if the systems of cars were serviced like this car was, the pump could have gone into the hundreds of thousands of miles before failure.

Case in point is my wife's 1997 Ford Explorer V8. We have had it since new, and since I service the cooling system each year with fresh antifreeze and distilled water, both the thermostat and the water pump continue to operate just as they did when we first purchased the car.

There is such a potential for extreme damage if the belt broke or slipped from a coolant leak on it. If the crank and cams lose their timing, the repair will cost thousands, so I just change it all at 90,000 miles.

I don't think that very many of us have pushed our GS's past 90,000 miles without a belt change, but for the record, has ANY of us taken the belt and pump past 100,000 miles?? 120,000 miles? I think that I could risk 120,000 miles on MY car based on what I saw inside my engine. Throwing away good parts like I had coming out really kind of bugs me. Maybe Lexus assumed that the average owner would NOT service the car so regularly, and set the service level at a mileage they felt comfortable that ALL drivers could reach safely. I have never heard of a factory belt or water pump breaking before 90,000 miles....has ANYONE else?

spxChrome

I would agree with you, but I think it all boils down to that "better safe than sorry" approach. Both of my T-Belts looked almost new when I had them changed at 92K and 102K.

lexusk8

Do you mean 92K and 102K for your ES and LS respectively?

knipknup

So I checked out the chart and now I'm confused (supposed to clear it all up right?)...

Is interference where damage is done when belt breaks (bad design)? That's my interpretation, but why would the newer models go from 'good design' to 'bad design'? Maybe some revenue generation in the parts area, or do I have it backwards?

Pheonix

Yes, you've got it.
It's not a bad design...
You can either have low valve lift & low peak flow rates, or you can have a higher lift & more peak flow rates.

For the moment, this is the most up to date information from Toyota.
All '98+ v6's in use are 90,000m timing belt & pump changes

All previous v6 engine schedules have been amended from the original 60,000 mile change, water pump at 120,000 miles to reflect the current standards - EXCEPT when your vehicle falls under Special Operating Condition 3

That means that from Toyota - every v6, even old ones not meeting Special Operating Condition 3 - should have it's timing belt changed at 90,000 miles with the water pump.

SOC3:
1. Towing a trailer or using a camper or cartop
carrier.
2. Repeated short trips of less than five
miles in temperatures below freezing.
3. Extensive idling or low-speed driving for
long distances as in heavy commercial
use, such as delivery, taxi, or patrol car.
4. Operating on rough, muddy, or saltcovered
roads.
5. Operating on unpaved or dusty roads.


It's that simple. If you don't meet a requirement above, you change your timing belt & water pump every 90,000 miles.

If you have an old one not at 120,000 miles & the original water pump change you don't have a problem. Flush the cooling system every other year like you're suppose too and you can easily go 150,000 miles on the first pump. You have no reason to change it at 120,000 miles if you flush your cooling system every other year.







The reason for the waterpump change is preventative maintenance from the fact that next to noone does vehicle maintenance. This actually became a good idea years after Toyota began doing "short water pump intervals" as Toyota began having a problem with failing cooling systems over the last 10-15 years because owners are:
1) Refusing to do correct maintenance on the cooling system
(and more rescently)
2) Original timeframe of Toyota Red coolant lifespan was over-estimated when introduced
3) Mixing Toyota red & any normal coolant will produce a thick gel that will clog passages the coolant inhibitors also break down extremely quickly becoming highly corrosive.

If you leave ANY coolant in too long, or you mix Toyota red you have a high chance of cooling system damage. Namely blowing a radiator, and the #2 problem would be the water pump impellers corroding off.
If you look at other O***s, they have the same problems around about the same mileages so it's not a bad idea to change them with the timing system on any vehicle.


So yes, it is a good idea to change the waterpump when you change the timing belt.
There's no reason to not pay $75 for a pump & that takes 15 extra min during the timing belt removal/installation.