"The ES300/330 is not a gussied up Camry... the Camry is a 'gussied down' ES"?????
12-20-02, 01:11 PM
#31
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Stuff like this rarely happens to me, and even when it does, I shrug it off, because I know this car is awesome.
I drove a 94 Camry (exactly the same powertrain, 4spd atuo) before my 94 ES300, and the difference is there.
It's in the feel of the car, the look of the car, the materials, the sounds, etc.
I don't race around much anyways, so I don't really care that the 94s shared the same output.
The best retort when people say stuff like this, is to get into your car, snuggle yourself into the leather seats, turn on the climate control, play some music, and gently cruise away, with a look of ecstacy on your face. They will get the point, and they will hate you for it.
I drove a 94 Camry (exactly the same powertrain, 4spd atuo) before my 94 ES300, and the difference is there.
It's in the feel of the car, the look of the car, the materials, the sounds, etc.
I don't race around much anyways, so I don't really care that the 94s shared the same output.
The best retort when people say stuff like this, is to get into your car, snuggle yourself into the leather seats, turn on the climate control, play some music, and gently cruise away, with a look of ecstacy on your face. They will get the point, and they will hate you for it.
12-20-02, 09:14 PM
#32
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It does not bother me in the slightest way. Toyota makes a very reliable and durable car. Add to that the beautiful styling and luxurious interior, then bam! You got a Lexus. They are the finest cars ever built. What's not to love? 
12-21-02, 12:51 AM
#34
Driver School Candidate
Originally posted by NoLexNoSex
yeah...i love my car...i get shivers whenever i look at the car....soooo beautiful....
yeah...i love my car...i get shivers whenever i look at the car....soooo beautiful....
01-14-03, 09:21 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
Everyone is ranting about how their ES300 isn't a Camry, and talking about how there are so many differences.
Yet I haven't yet heard anyone mention what those differences might be.
The ES300 is built in Japan. It has a bit better quality of materials and build quality specifications. It has a better stereo, nicer leather, better sound insulation, more options, different looks outside and aesthetics inside. It also has a bit more power.
But that's where it stops. And as impressive as the aforementioned list sounds, it's really just fluff. When it comes down to it, they are riding on the same chassis with still the large majority of their parts shared.
About the Accord CL/TL, you might be surprised to know that only roughly 5% of the parts are carried over. The only major component that's shared is the chassis, which even the chassis has slightly different dimensions and more effective torsional stiffness measures put into place. Oh and the motor is also similar if you are comparing the [b]non[/i] Type-S model to the Accord, the Acura has .2 extra liters and 25 extra ponies. Whereas the Type-S is significantly revised over the Accord and non type-S.
All of that and the Acura version still only costs 2-3k more, whereas the ES300 costs 7-8k+ more than the Camry from what I've seen.
Yes I know the ES300 has standard features and options the Camry doesn't have available, but so does the CL/TL.
And for those who want to get technical, I'm talking about the 98-02 Accord compared to the 98-03 CL/TL. I know the 03 Accord is revised and in many ways could be considered better than even the CL/TL... but the '04 CL/TL is getting revised for '04 to reset the gap.
Believe me, I'm not saying any of what you guys are saying is wrong.
I'm just playing the devil's advocate and representing a point of view that seems to be scarce on this board because of the largely biased crowd around here.
And no I don't own a Camry, ES300, Accord, or CL/TL either, although I've driven or at least ridden in all 5 at least a couple of times.
Yet I haven't yet heard anyone mention what those differences might be.
The ES300 is built in Japan. It has a bit better quality of materials and build quality specifications. It has a better stereo, nicer leather, better sound insulation, more options, different looks outside and aesthetics inside. It also has a bit more power.
But that's where it stops. And as impressive as the aforementioned list sounds, it's really just fluff. When it comes down to it, they are riding on the same chassis with still the large majority of their parts shared.
About the Accord CL/TL, you might be surprised to know that only roughly 5% of the parts are carried over. The only major component that's shared is the chassis, which even the chassis has slightly different dimensions and more effective torsional stiffness measures put into place. Oh and the motor is also similar if you are comparing the [b]non[/i] Type-S model to the Accord, the Acura has .2 extra liters and 25 extra ponies. Whereas the Type-S is significantly revised over the Accord and non type-S.
All of that and the Acura version still only costs 2-3k more, whereas the ES300 costs 7-8k+ more than the Camry from what I've seen.
Yes I know the ES300 has standard features and options the Camry doesn't have available, but so does the CL/TL.
And for those who want to get technical, I'm talking about the 98-02 Accord compared to the 98-03 CL/TL. I know the 03 Accord is revised and in many ways could be considered better than even the CL/TL... but the '04 CL/TL is getting revised for '04 to reset the gap.
Believe me, I'm not saying any of what you guys are saying is wrong.
I'm just playing the devil's advocate and representing a point of view that seems to be scarce on this board because of the largely biased crowd around here.
And no I don't own a Camry, ES300, Accord, or CL/TL either, although I've driven or at least ridden in all 5 at least a couple of times.
01-15-03, 01:03 AM
#39
Originally posted by PhoenixGoldLex
An acura Cl is a piece of junk!
Sorry it's true...A Lexus ES300 is a far better built vehicle.
Resale values speak for Lexus and Acura (Lexus wins)
Nuff said!
An acura Cl is a piece of junk!
Sorry it's true...A Lexus ES300 is a far better built vehicle.
Resale values speak for Lexus and Acura (Lexus wins)
Nuff said!
Besides, go race a new CL and see who wins
.
01-15-03, 01:16 AM
#41
Originally posted by PhoenixGoldLex
Acura's are just glorified plastic accords (I hate them can u tell)
Acura's are just glorified plastic accords (I hate them can u tell)
PS- the NSX is not exactly a 'glorified plastic accord'
Last edited by Nabeel; 01-15-03 at 01:27 AM.
01-15-03, 01:25 AM
#42
Originally posted by Threxx
[B]Everyone is ranting about how their ES300 isn't a Camry, and talking about how there are so many differences.
Yet I haven't yet heard anyone mention what those differences might be.
The ES300 is built in Japan. It has a bit better quality of materials and build quality specifications. It has a better stereo, nicer leather, better sound insulation, more options, different looks outside and aesthetics inside. It also has a bit more power.
But that's where it stops. And as impressive as the aforementioned list sounds, it's really just fluff. When it comes down to it, they are riding on the same chassis with still the large majority of their parts shared.
About the Accord CL/TL, you might be surprised to know that only roughly 5% of the parts are carried over. The only major component that's shared is the chassis, which even the chassis has slightly different dimensions and more effective torsional stiffness measures put into place. Oh and the motor is also similar if you are comparing the non[/i] Type-S model to the Accord, the Acura has .2 extra liters and 25 extra ponies. Whereas the Type-S is significantly revised over the Accord and non type-S.
All of that and the Acura version still only costs 2-3k more, whereas the ES300 costs 7-8k+ more than the Camry from what I've seen.
Yes I know the ES300 has standard features and options the Camry doesn't have available, but so does the CL/TL.
And for those who want to get technical, I'm talking about the 98-02 Accord compared to the 98-03 CL/TL. I know the 03 Accord is revised and in many ways could be considered better than even the CL/TL... but the '04 CL/TL is getting revised for '04 to reset the gap.
Believe me, I'm not saying any of what you guys are saying is wrong.
I'm just playing the devil's advocate and representing a point of view that seems to be scarce on this board because of the largely biased crowd around here.
And no I don't own a Camry, ES300, Accord, or CL/TL either, although I've driven or at least ridden in all 5 at least a couple of times.
[B]Everyone is ranting about how their ES300 isn't a Camry, and talking about how there are so many differences.
Yet I haven't yet heard anyone mention what those differences might be.
The ES300 is built in Japan. It has a bit better quality of materials and build quality specifications. It has a better stereo, nicer leather, better sound insulation, more options, different looks outside and aesthetics inside. It also has a bit more power.
But that's where it stops. And as impressive as the aforementioned list sounds, it's really just fluff. When it comes down to it, they are riding on the same chassis with still the large majority of their parts shared.
About the Accord CL/TL, you might be surprised to know that only roughly 5% of the parts are carried over. The only major component that's shared is the chassis, which even the chassis has slightly different dimensions and more effective torsional stiffness measures put into place. Oh and the motor is also similar if you are comparing the non[/i] Type-S model to the Accord, the Acura has .2 extra liters and 25 extra ponies. Whereas the Type-S is significantly revised over the Accord and non type-S.
All of that and the Acura version still only costs 2-3k more, whereas the ES300 costs 7-8k+ more than the Camry from what I've seen.
Yes I know the ES300 has standard features and options the Camry doesn't have available, but so does the CL/TL.
And for those who want to get technical, I'm talking about the 98-02 Accord compared to the 98-03 CL/TL. I know the 03 Accord is revised and in many ways could be considered better than even the CL/TL... but the '04 CL/TL is getting revised for '04 to reset the gap.
Believe me, I'm not saying any of what you guys are saying is wrong.
I'm just playing the devil's advocate and representing a point of view that seems to be scarce on this board because of the largely biased crowd around here.
And no I don't own a Camry, ES300, Accord, or CL/TL either, although I've driven or at least ridden in all 5 at least a couple of times.
You are mostly right with your listing of qualities that seperate the ES300 and Camry (higher quality, better stereo, more unique styling, more power, better insulation, etc.) One thing you forgot is that when you are dealing with a Lexus dealership or service department, you are treated like a King. In the Toyota parts department, you usually do not get any special treatment or respect from the employees. To many people, that is worth a lot. The reputation of even the best car can be spoiled by an incompetant service department.
Also, I don't know it this was posted earlier, since I don't wanna go back and scan through 3 pages, but I'll tell you a little-known fact: Since the 1992 model year, the ES300/Camry platform has been designed to be used first and foremost for the ES300 as a Lexus platform. Later in the development process, the Camry adopts the platform. In this sense, it is more plausible to call a Camry a watered-down Lexus than to call a Lexus a dressed-up Toyota.
01-15-03, 02:19 PM
#44
Lexus Champion
Originally posted by PhoenixGoldLex
An acura Cl is a piece of junk!
Sorry it's true...A Lexus ES300 is a far better built vehicle.
Resale values speak for Lexus and Acura (Lexus wins)
Nuff said!
An acura Cl is a piece of junk!
Sorry it's true...A Lexus ES300 is a far better built vehicle.
Resale values speak for Lexus and Acura (Lexus wins)
Nuff said!
Nabeel, the 5% carry-over stat is true. I've seen it confirmed by at least 3 credible sources. Two of them automotive publications, and one of them an aquantance of mine that works in Acura's engineering department (although he is not an engineer himself).
01-16-03, 05:13 PM
#45
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Camry's start of from LE to XLE's and come both in 2.4 and 3.0 (IMZfe's...what we all got).
If you are comparing an LE to an ES, i see a loads of differences that make the ES superior...however, you all should compare a Gen 4 xle v6 (full leather, mirror compass/temp, wood interor, factory cd changer) to an Es300. Comparing an 92-96 camry doesn't mate well. I've got an 4th Gen XLE v6 Camry, and a 2nd Gen ES 300....Both cars are superior in their own aspects...yeah BOTH......Only BIG BIG everyday differences I see is that retractable wipers (on ES); colored nozzles on the ES; instrumet cluster (but then again...for me it work...what about you all???); some people saw ES's have more power...OK...how much more less than 10ponies more..wooo hooo...BUt isn't the lexi more HEAVY than the camry...isn't the increased power contradictory to the weight issue (i know since i also own a solara...which also have more power than the camrys - however they weigh more...and in the end....its all the same...As long as its a 1mzfe engine..don't compare...just drive happy for 20 years!
No I'm not an es hater....just a practical person...with that said..i still prefer lexi leather to camry's any day!
If you are comparing an LE to an ES, i see a loads of differences that make the ES superior...however, you all should compare a Gen 4 xle v6 (full leather, mirror compass/temp, wood interor, factory cd changer) to an Es300. Comparing an 92-96 camry doesn't mate well. I've got an 4th Gen XLE v6 Camry, and a 2nd Gen ES 300....Both cars are superior in their own aspects...yeah BOTH......Only BIG BIG everyday differences I see is that retractable wipers (on ES); colored nozzles on the ES; instrumet cluster (but then again...for me it work...what about you all???); some people saw ES's have more power...OK...how much more less than 10ponies more..wooo hooo...BUt isn't the lexi more HEAVY than the camry...isn't the increased power contradictory to the weight issue (i know since i also own a solara...which also have more power than the camrys - however they weigh more...and in the end....its all the same...As long as its a 1mzfe engine..don't compare...just drive happy for 20 years!
No I'm not an es hater....just a practical person...with that said..i still prefer lexi leather to camry's any day!