Push

The Es 300 does have Camry roots in it, such as same engine components and drivetrain, but its Lexus Luxury all around that makes it a Es 300. Ask a Camry Driver if he has a beautiful gaugecluster which is not the usual Toyota Green. The Lexus Es 300 is not a overpriced Camry, its a underpriced LS 400, except it has FWD

Threxx

So now it's not a gussied up Camry, it's a gussied down LS400?

You guys are nuts.

Talk about marketing at its best.

Look.... the Camry and ES300 share probably right around 98% of their drivetrain and chassis componentry. Even the majority of their interior components with a few major exceptions designed to catch the eye and convince it that they aren't the same car.

Go buy a Haynes repair manual and you'll notice the only Lexus you can buy one for is the ES300, and it just so happens to be labeled "Toyota Camry and Lexus ES300 repair manual". Quick look inside and you'll notice they never have to give any different instructions for the ES300.

Now again, let me say I realize the ES300 gives you some desirable bonuses like stricter build quality (japanese built), nicer leather, wood grain, nicer looking guages, better paint, better stereo, more options, quieter ride, better warranty terms and service, etc.

Now whether that's worth the extra 15-20% over a loaded Camry or not... that's up to you. In my opinion it is worth it... if I was in the market for a loaded brand new Camry, I would without a doubt go for the ES330 instead. Especially now days with the current model, they seem like two very different cars despite the fact that they are realistically twins when you get down to it.

squarehat

There was much more mechanical overlap in the older days, especially in the 92-96s, long before the days of features like VVT-i and 5-speed automatics that were exclusive to the ES. I've poked around under the hood of my '96 ES and a friend's '96 Avalon parked side-by-side, and they're practically identical to my semi-trained "enthusiast" eye.

whitcobra

All u gotta tell someone who says an es300 is a camry is go buy one

adam1991

(squarehat, I like your license plate)

OK, so my 94 ES is in the shop getting the transmission rebuilt. (sigh) Anyway, I wandered in this afternoon to see it and to talk to the guy doing the work.

He had the entire transmission disassembled and all the parts cleaned up, ready for the bushings and seals and whatnot. He was talking about the job and let slip a comment about "and because it's Lexus they have to be just different enough from Toyota." I asked him what he meant, and he started pointing out how the differential was beefier, how Lexus uses bearings instead of just plain washers, etc.

He pointed out a lot of little things that told me this: Toyota paid a LOT of attention to a huge number of small details that individually seem a little crazy, but put together add up to a significantly different experience for the Lexus owner as compared to the Toyota owner.

In fact, this mechanic (who was very well spoken and well experienced in this particular art) talked about how it's not just a V6 Camry under the hood, from what he can tell. His experience tells him otherwise.

I like all this, but what stymies me is why Toyota stuck with the exact same plain-Jane shift lever as they had used for years on the Toyota side of the house. All that work inside to make it a different experience, and they waste it on making the user think he's just working a plain Toyota tranny, just like ma used to drive.

Threxx

I've heard this time and time again that the ES was engineered first and then the Camry was derived from it.

Well on another board I was talking about how the Audi A4 is for the most part a luxo/sportied-up VW Passat and he corrected me and said the A4 already existed and the Passat borrowed its platform from the A4. I said well technically the Camry did the same from the ES but everyone still refers to it as a gussied up Camry (and to an extent, understandably so).

Well he wondered what my source was on that and the more I got to thinking about it, as many times as I've been told that, I've never gotten any sort of reference to a credible factual source. For all I know it's just hear-say.

So do you guys have any sources to show me or what?

metalface

The Camry was launched in 1980, whereas the ES was launched in 1989 and was built off of the Camry platform.

Threxx

Most people I have heard say the ES250 was obviously just a shoe-in rebadge of the Camry, but come 1992 model, the Camry began being based off the ES and not the other way around.

I'm not saying it's true, I'm just wanting those who've told me that in the past (and anyone else who assumes that's true) to step up to the plate with some evidence.

Pheonix

FYI... There was a post discussing this in the last week or two...



And that would be incorrect!
Camry name started with the Celica Camry in '80. It wasn't widely produced.
There wasn't an actual Camry - it's own car until mid '82 sold for '83's (I was born in 83! !)


The Camry comes first. Then every platform that's built off it. There are a thousand things either re-badged camry's produced by partners, or seperate vehicles built off the Camry playform. God only knows how many rebadges & platforms have been built off the Camry.


The Windom is a fully uptrimed / slightly modified JDM Camry. The ES versions (American, or Canadian trim - FYI they're sold in some markets the world over, but the either come American, or Canadian) is the Windom slightly modified.


Toyota vehicle list.

Of note to this duscission:
Camry
Camry Solara
Avalon/Pronard

Vista

Highlander/Kluger
RX/Harrier

Previa
Sienna




Windom
ES

Kohinoor

iTrader: (22)

all my friends make fun of me by saying i drive just a nice camry.. i dont mind... they all drive hondas anyway

Pheonix

Some of mine too... Until they took some rides & found out it's not only plusher & the BQ is a million times better, but the car is much faster than most people would ever think! Sizleeper!

To me, either embrace the fact that we all drive "uber Camrys", or just be ignorant about a bunch of things.

lexusk8

As fate would have it, this Camry/ES300 topic is brought into the light again, so I decided to merge an old thread with this one. Let's keep the conversation nice and clean

sle3p13azn

Ppl r stupid if they criticize the ES, they totally underestimate it. Its quality is...wow. i mean, my 96 ES is a daily driven vehicle, its never broken down, its a very reliable car. I'd even drive thru the ghetto in it and id still feel safer than driving a Fix Or Repair Daily (Ford) vehicle anywhere, anytime. i love the ES, and everyone should respect the ES and not underestimate it.

WadeDwyer

I generally reply with:
"Yeah - you're right."

But I bought mine used with 65k at a Camry price (while looking for a Camry/Accord at the time as a commuter car).

As a bonus I got a nicer interior and stereo. I also got a Japanese made car vs American (I think - I haven't bothered to look at my door sticker but I was under the impression that all Lexi were made in Japan). If I am wrong I am sure someone will correct me.

Pheonix

You do realize that post is almost 3 years old now.
But ya, all ES/Windom's are made at the Tsutsumi plant in Japan.

Not all Lexi are built in Japan. If Toyota wanted to, they could make ES's in both Kentucky & Cambridge, Canada next week if they felt like it, just using North American Camry Kentucky & RX-330 Canada lines.