ES250/Camry engine swap
06-29-07, 11:09 AM
#16
You bought a second generation Toyota Camry. About all you need to know is the ECU swap, because the older engines are lacking some things like knocks ensors & an o2 sensor. Which will freak out the newer ECU when they're missing.
Teach him to weld & put a little turbo on it.
Teach him to weld & put a little turbo on it.
06-29-07, 12:50 PM
#17
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Hum. So since the camry and ES have the same engine and chassie code it would be safe to say doing a camry implant in any ES would work? Like a have a 2000 ES and lets just say I get crazy one day
and I want to swap out for a turbo Camry engine and trans, it in theory could work?-Smitty
06-29-07, 03:16 PM
#18
there is no turbo camry engine, but yes.
Thus-far, all Toyota v6's will mate to the same transmissions, and all transverse v6's use the same mounting geometry & engine mounts (for the most part).
Which opens the door to without doing huge mechanical work (electrical work yes), you can put any engine in any platform from 1987+.
Because the Camry engine's also shared the S block i4's with the Celica all-trac and MR2's. You *could* change the dogbone (lateral) mount & do any S block engine, or S block hybrid engine. Along with the very short gearing & LSD equipped(optioned/standard) E153 manual transmission from the MR2 Turbo, provided you swap the linkage to the correct side. Tho that would be worthless.
Also on the list of "god knows why anyone would want to do it because it's stupid" are using the crappy i4 Sxx based manual transmissions. Along with converting to the AWD systems avalible on i4 Camry's in Japan, and gen2 Camry's here.
Thus-far, all Toyota v6's will mate to the same transmissions, and all transverse v6's use the same mounting geometry & engine mounts (for the most part).
Which opens the door to without doing huge mechanical work (electrical work yes), you can put any engine in any platform from 1987+.
Because the Camry engine's also shared the S block i4's with the Celica all-trac and MR2's. You *could* change the dogbone (lateral) mount & do any S block engine, or S block hybrid engine. Along with the very short gearing & LSD equipped(optioned/standard) E153 manual transmission from the MR2 Turbo, provided you swap the linkage to the correct side. Tho that would be worthless.
Also on the list of "god knows why anyone would want to do it because it's stupid" are using the crappy i4 Sxx based manual transmissions. Along with converting to the AWD systems avalible on i4 Camry's in Japan, and gen2 Camry's here.
06-29-07, 07:01 PM
#19
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thanks, that's helpful. the 2vz-fe on the camry does have the o2 sensor right where the crossover meets the rear manifold. will look up where the knock sensor is located to transplant it rather than swap ecu's.
is the abs system pass-through? all of toyota's systems are (minus hybrids) but this being such an early design... he doesn't know. it's a mess of brake tubing compared to the system in toyotas.
one more. is there any way to bypass the progressive power steering without freaking out a computer? (ie can we get away with using the almost new camry rack instead of dropping $160 plus core on a reman one for the es?) we are prepared to spend the money but if we can get away without it,
thanks again.
is the abs system pass-through? all of toyota's systems are (minus hybrids) but this being such an early design... he doesn't know. it's a mess of brake tubing compared to the system in toyotas.
one more. is there any way to bypass the progressive power steering without freaking out a computer? (ie can we get away with using the almost new camry rack instead of dropping $160 plus core on a reman one for the es?) we are prepared to spend the money but if we can get away without it,
thanks again.
Last edited by powerwave; 06-29-07 at 07:06 PM.
06-29-07, 07:17 PM
#20
thanks, that's helpful. the 2vz-fe on the camry does have the o2 sensor right where the crossover meets the rear manifold. will look up where the knock sensor is located to transplant it rather than swap ecu's.
is the abs system pass-through? all of toyota's systems are (minus hybrids) but this being such an early design... he doesn't know. it's a mess of brake tubing compared to the system in toyotas.
one more. is there any way to bypass the progressive power steering without freaking out a computer? (ie can we get away with using the almost new camry rack instead of dropping $160 plus core on a reman one for the es?) we are prepared to spend the money but if we can get away without it,
THE PPS (HYDRAULIC REACTION TYPE) CONTROLS THE HYDRAULIC PRESSURE APPLIED TO THE HYDRAULIC REACTION CHAMBER IN THE GEAR BOX CONTROL UNIT USING THE PPS ECU, TO CHANGE THE STEERING FORCE AND PROVIDE OPTIMUM STEERING FEELING AT ANY VEHICLE SPEED AND UNDER ANY STEERING CONDITIONS.
(PPS OPERATION)
WHEN THE IGNITION SW IS TURNED ON THE STARTING CURRENT FLOWS FROM THE ECU–IG USE TO TERMINAL 4 OF THE PPS ECU. THE SPEED SENSOR MONITORS THE VEHICLE SPEED AND TRANSMITS CONTROL SIGNALS TO TERMINAL 3 OF THE ECU. WHEN THE VEHICLE SPEED IS LOW, THE PPS ECU SENDS A HIGHER–VOLTAGE FROM TERMINAL 1 OF THE ECU " TERMINAL 1 OF THE SOLENOID VALVE " TERMINAL 2 " TERMINAL 5 OF THE ECU " GROUND, INCREASING THE SOLENOID VALVE OPENING ANGLE TO PROVIDE COMFORTABLE STEERING OPERATION. WHEN THE VEHICLE SPEED IS HIGH, THE PPS ECU DECREASES THE SOLENOID VALVE OPENING ANGLE BY REDUCING THE VOLTAGE TO THE VALVE TO PROVIDE RESPONSIVE STEERING FEELING.
(PPS OPERATION)
WHEN THE IGNITION SW IS TURNED ON THE STARTING CURRENT FLOWS FROM THE ECU–IG USE TO TERMINAL 4 OF THE PPS ECU. THE SPEED SENSOR MONITORS THE VEHICLE SPEED AND TRANSMITS CONTROL SIGNALS TO TERMINAL 3 OF THE ECU. WHEN THE VEHICLE SPEED IS LOW, THE PPS ECU SENDS A HIGHER–VOLTAGE FROM TERMINAL 1 OF THE ECU " TERMINAL 1 OF THE SOLENOID VALVE " TERMINAL 2 " TERMINAL 5 OF THE ECU " GROUND, INCREASING THE SOLENOID VALVE OPENING ANGLE TO PROVIDE COMFORTABLE STEERING OPERATION. WHEN THE VEHICLE SPEED IS HIGH, THE PPS ECU DECREASES THE SOLENOID VALVE OPENING ANGLE BY REDUCING THE VOLTAGE TO THE VALVE TO PROVIDE RESPONSIVE STEERING FEELING.
PPS SOLENOID
4–GROUND : APPROX. 12 VOLTS WITH IGNITION SW AT ON POSITION
2–GROUND : ALWAYS CONTINUITY
4–GROUND : APPROX. 12 VOLTS WITH IGNITION SW AT ON POSITION
2–GROUND : ALWAYS CONTINUITY
06-29-07, 07:28 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
First, wow nice find, that es250 body looks so clean for a 17yr old. Again, wow...
2nd, anything is possible when it comes to engine swaps, theres a 350cid chevy swap kit for a pontiac fiero/350 swap for a 240z/5.0 to rwd focus. Course your swap will be much easier than what i've previously mentioned.
2nd, anything is possible when it comes to engine swaps, theres a 350cid chevy swap kit for a pontiac fiero/350 swap for a 240z/5.0 to rwd focus. Course your swap will be much easier than what i've previously mentioned.
06-29-07, 08:29 PM
#22
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pheonix, thanks a ton, you are the man! we've been on the sending end of technical advice for quite some time now... so it's nice to be able to turn around and ask a question, and find an expert in something DH doesn't know as well. yet.
sounds like we're gonna bite the bullet on the rack rather than screw around. pps will be nice to have anyway.
that should be all he needs to get him started, just gotta get the rack and a couple other seals. he's all chompin' at the bit to do this thing. once we're sorted out and this gets started, pics will follow.
sounds like we're gonna bite the bullet on the rack rather than screw around. pps will be nice to have anyway.
that should be all he needs to get him started, just gotta get the rack and a couple other seals. he's all chompin' at the bit to do this thing. once we're sorted out and this gets started, pics will follow.
06-30-07, 10:42 AM
#24
Dysfunctional Veteran
pheonix, thanks a ton, you are the man! we've been on the sending end of technical advice for quite some time now... so it's nice to be able to turn around and ask a question, and find an expert in something DH doesn't know as well. yet.
sounds like we're gonna bite the bullet on the rack rather than screw around. pps will be nice to have anyway.
that should be all he needs to get him started, just gotta get the rack and a couple other seals. he's all chompin' at the bit to do this thing. once we're sorted out and this gets started, pics will follow.
sounds like we're gonna bite the bullet on the rack rather than screw around. pps will be nice to have anyway.
that should be all he needs to get him started, just gotta get the rack and a couple other seals. he's all chompin' at the bit to do this thing. once we're sorted out and this gets started, pics will follow.
-the rack and pinion does not fit from the camry...you have already noticed this.
-Power steering pump isnt the same for the ES250, the Lexus one is heavier duty, heavier car.
THe ECU's are different, though the engine will run with the lexus one in a camry engined car...you will just have a check engine light.
the exhausts were routed slightly different i believe, but the one from the lexus will bolt to the camry engine so no issue there.
the rest is electrical and cosmetic. and you are right, no matter how beaten and battered this ES is, it will still ride 10x better than any gen II camry on the road. they really are quite the treat to drive and you get a lot of looks and "what is that?" remarks. a pic of mine...RIP Lexi...
Before the accident:
(connection is pissin me off, coming in a few mins....
After the accident:
06-30-07, 12:26 PM
#25
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found a rack for cheap online, but we need to put our solenoid on it before we can use it. ordered axle seals, trans pan gasket, front oil pump seal, rear main today. the control arms are coming off the camry too. once all that comes in, the fun begins! can't wait to get this baby on the road... i thought the camry was a nice car but i've never driven a lexus.
we'll probably use our camry trans too, it's got 140k on it and we know it's great, as opposed to the unknown with 186k and naaasty fluid. at the very least the lexus engine is getting torn apart- he won't be able to stop himself- if it's a cheap fix parts wise we'll have a good reserve but the camry engine runs so nice that we're not too concerned about it.
finally got the repair manual and ewd downloaded, that should be good for reference.
army of one: ouch!!! i'm so sorry. we stuck over $1200 in the camry the month it got smashed, but $4600 would really be horrible. DH is thinking the ps pump is ok, if not we'll contact you about yours (saw your post over on the other forum)
thanks for the info, everyone here is so damn helpful!
stay safe in iraq, i had a close friend who went out there too (2003-2004), i understand it's a hell of a hard job and we appreciate you doing it.
we'll probably use our camry trans too, it's got 140k on it and we know it's great, as opposed to the unknown with 186k and naaasty fluid. at the very least the lexus engine is getting torn apart- he won't be able to stop himself- if it's a cheap fix parts wise we'll have a good reserve but the camry engine runs so nice that we're not too concerned about it.
finally got the repair manual and ewd downloaded, that should be good for reference.
army of one: ouch!!! i'm so sorry. we stuck over $1200 in the camry the month it got smashed, but $4600 would really be horrible. DH is thinking the ps pump is ok, if not we'll contact you about yours (saw your post over on the other forum)
thanks for the info, everyone here is so damn helpful!
stay safe in iraq, i had a close friend who went out there too (2003-2004), i understand it's a hell of a hard job and we appreciate you doing it.
06-30-07, 10:01 PM
#26
Wow, im sorry i missed this thread...I rebuilt my old ES250 after the previous owner neglected it. I put $4,600 worth of parts on it in a little less than 5 months. It was totalled shortly after completion, waiting on a paintjob. if you do a search on the ES250, you will find most of the posts are from me LOL. I miss that car, mine had 146,000 miles when i totalled it. It was a very good car, and trust me, the speed sensitive steering is a must. Mechanically the cars are virtually identical. a few of the differences:
-the rack and pinion does not fit from the camry...you have already noticed this.
-Power steering pump isnt the same for the ES250, the Lexus one is heavier duty, heavier car.
THe ECU's are different, though the engine will run with the lexus one in a camry engined car...you will just have a check engine light.
the exhausts were routed slightly different i believe, but the one from the lexus will bolt to the camry engine so no issue there.
the rest is electrical and cosmetic. and you are right, no matter how beaten and battered this ES is, it will still ride 10x better than any gen II camry on the road. they really are quite the treat to drive and you get a lot of looks and "what is that?" remarks. a pic of mine...RIP Lexi...
Before the accident:
(connection is pissin me off, coming in a few mins....
After the accident:
-the rack and pinion does not fit from the camry...you have already noticed this.
-Power steering pump isnt the same for the ES250, the Lexus one is heavier duty, heavier car.
THe ECU's are different, though the engine will run with the lexus one in a camry engined car...you will just have a check engine light.
the exhausts were routed slightly different i believe, but the one from the lexus will bolt to the camry engine so no issue there.
the rest is electrical and cosmetic. and you are right, no matter how beaten and battered this ES is, it will still ride 10x better than any gen II camry on the road. they really are quite the treat to drive and you get a lot of looks and "what is that?" remarks. a pic of mine...RIP Lexi...
Before the accident:
(connection is pissin me off, coming in a few mins....
After the accident:
06-30-07, 10:31 PM
#27
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07-03-07, 08:04 PM
#28
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- axle seals, trans pan gasket, front oil pump seal, rear main, and valve cover gaskets are all here
- payment pending on rack, that's the big hangup
- waiting on new side markers to be delivered (ours were cracked)
engine's probably coming out of the es this weekend. can't wait!!
- payment pending on rack, that's the big hangup
- waiting on new side markers to be delivered (ours were cracked)
engine's probably coming out of the es this weekend. can't wait!!
07-05-07, 08:26 PM
#30
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92ES5sp: DH hasn't looked at em too closely, but he doesn't think ours does.
back on topic, looks like the rack will be here on tuesday. so the engine and trans are hopefully coming out of the ES on saturday, swap racks tuesday, and then it's engine/trans install the next weekend.
me... i'm doing some interior restoration while he works the under-hood stuff.
pictures to follow, once the action happens.
back on topic, looks like the rack will be here on tuesday. so the engine and trans are hopefully coming out of the ES on saturday, swap racks tuesday, and then it's engine/trans install the next weekend.
me... i'm doing some interior restoration while he works the under-hood stuff.
pictures to follow, once the action happens.