Havok13154

I bought my 2002 ES300 in sept of 2005 with 43k so i is certified at the kerney mesa lexus dealer in SO Cal. 3rd day i got it i noticed it pulled to the left. went into the dealer and they said it needed an alinement. 3 weeks later i go back and they say nothing is wrong and they do another alinement to make me happy. car still pulls to the left. i buy new tires, still pulls to the left. bring it to a few places over the next year and none of them can tell what the problem is unless i spend the $$$ to have them really look at it $300+ just to look!!! i bring it to lexus about 1 month ago fed up with the problem. i tell them to check it all, spring/struts/tierods/swaybars/endlinks/brakes/axels and a few others. 3 days later they tell me my caster is off and it can't be fixed or adjusted on the car. they say they can MISALINE my car to compensate for it. i talk to the manager of the used car and he dosn't say anyhting other then he can look into it. he is sweating(he started right in front of me after about 3 minutes into talking) because he knows this problem was there when i bought the car and they missed it.

few days go buy and they call me to get my car and i get it and they say the tech made a mistake and the caster is not off. the car pull to the left because i'm over weight! WTF is this **** i'm over weight so my car pulls to the left. i'm about 350lbs. they put the alinement at 1.8 for the left and 1.5 for the right. the can still pulls to the left. if i brake when it is pulling to the left it almost straightens.

i complained to Lexus corp. what else can i do i'm sick of this problem. i need ammo so i don't get screwed over and left with this lemon.

dose anyone believe that being 350lbs will make my car go left, never had this problem before even when i weight more. talked to 3 car guys and went to a shop and they all told me no way.

PLEASE HELP ME!!

Thanks,
Mark

Sash

Weighing 350lbs doesn't seem like a justifiable reason for a car to pull left... I would have a friend who weighs less than yourself drive the car for a little bit and see if theres a difference. If the car still continues to pull left with your friend behind the wheel then I'd rush back to that dealership and raise hell.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

thats rly rly dumb. my mom weighs 100 pounds and her lx goes right, and when my dad drives his it goes to the right and he is 200 pounds. all im trying to say is that the weight of a person should not cause a car to move left or rite, its just the car. o and if it were me, i would tell the dealer to f@#$ off telling my over weight then punch the dude in the face. but thats just the teenage kid in me im 14 lol but yea its the car not u

Lexucan

The dealer is giving you a load of crap in hopes you'll believe it and go away.

Pheonix

Sorry but people are not going to work for free.
Simply checking the alignment & tire balance is already 1/3 of the effort in doing the entire alignment itself. Plus a vehicle sitting in a shop is costing them money by another vehicle not being in there on the machine.
Big differance in somebody being nice & doing a 5-10min tire plug for free, or scanning a computer code in 60-120 seconds for free VS doing work.
Always go to a real alignment shop & pay the extra bit to get a lifetime alignment done. That way anytime it goes off, it's fixed & pre-paid.
AFA you being 350lbs knocking the car off-center:
The vast majority of passanger cars since the late 80's early 90's use a McPhearson strut suspension geometry setup. The suspension alignment is only 100% perfect at one specific point in it's travel. As the suspension travels upwards, or downwards from that point The suspension will step in & out, along with the camber of the wheel changing.
That's how the suspension geometry flat out works. The actual question you should ask would be, "how much more the alignment changes in motion when you at 350lbs are compaired to someone smaller".
It's a small change, however over time I don't see why ONLY IN THEORY you could have settled the left suspension more than the other side.
I can not, however answer to you how much a differance it could, or does make. Far beyond what I know the specs of the car are.
But yes, it does without question change the alignment. (the question being how much) Wheel bearings, dragging brakes, total suspension alignment & tire / wheel balance all affect "pulling". On left-hand drive roads, you generally would track just slightly to the right, following the actual crown in the road that let's water drain.
I guess if you wanted to answer the question for ****s & giggles you could check the springs, struts & bushing / mounts. Have it aligned 100% OEM. Then get someone lighter to drive the car by themself & comment. (just note that if you've settled that spring down the answer would be irrelevant.)

Without making any kinda point I can tell you the previous owner of my '93 ES was a big'en and he put 69-73,000m on the car (i forget). The suspension was completely trashed (still is) and the day I got it the driver's side was noticeably lower to a trained eye on level ground than the passanger's side was.

Pheonix

I forget the OEM spring specs as to progression rate VS compression in lbs VS in" of compression. But it's probably something like 150-200lbs = 1". Anyone else know? We'll average it & say 175lbs.
IDK the demensions & specs of you car, but using them for mine & some minor estimation to the weight distrobution @ the location of the 4 seat mounts, at 350lbs you'd be adding about this weight to the corners of the car:
73lbs front left 29lbs front right
70lbs rear left 28lbs rear right
IDK the rate of progression of compression on your springs VS the load on your spring VS the length of your spring, but say it's about 175lbs/in (not progressive.)
You'd have compressed the left side of the car an extra 1/2", the right side another 3/16" VS someone weighing 150lbs.

So don't think it doesn't make some measure of differance. If you were on a race-track it'd be night & day levels of obviousness. You'd never question it. So don't just think every little thing they tell you is a load of crap. Which goes back to my last post of the question being I wonder how much of a change that makes when you're in the vehicle.
No I'm not going to calculate the actual amount of camber change on the car lol! Tho I could since my front end is off the ground... I'm just not that bored yet.
Im always the first to shout dealer foul, but especially after having other shops align it, check wheel / tire balance & you not complaining of bearing, or brake drag problems. I would not just flagrantly dismiss the concept without further testing...

Pheonix

<hah i reiderate stuff so bad when i want to make a point>
So while that may, or may not be a cause. What I'm getting at is that I can in theory see the feasability of them telling you that. The suspension geometry changes the more it is under compression or de-compression. That's un-argueable.
You do compress the suspension more than I personally do.
That's un-argueable too.
Springs never completely settling, bushings fall apart & struts wear out (leak)
We know them one as well.

Sooo over time I can see it happening... With some good geometry a buddy around say 120-150lbs, a framing square, tape measure, plub bob & angle finder, and maybe 20-30 minutes. You could measure it for youself & give a definative 90% answer to crap, or believeable without super specialty equipment, or some ungodly knowledge not avalible on the internet.



I'm not saying right, or wrong, but I can pretty easily see it going one way or another... (to the question of does 200lbs of distrobution change, change the alignment in a McPhearson geometry car enough to make it track differently)

esucaris1

Tell ya what... I'm within your 350 give or take a few lbs. and my lex tracks straight as an arrow

kfit103710

I would report them for discrimination which is against the law for the crack about your weight. I would report the entire history of the problem of the car pulling to the left to the Nat'l Highway Transportation Safety Admin
at www.nhtsa.dot.gov. They have a place where you can report this and they will investigate. You could also do a search on their site to see if other cars like yours have this problem, and see if there are any service bulletins
or recalls . Lexus is not up on them all. We HAVE to search it out for ourselves, obviously. Good luck.

95gs300

How bout you sit in the car while they align it. So they align it to your specs, I'm an alignment tech and when I sit in a car I'm 145 I see the specs change. Just a suggestion.

Havok13154

thanks for all the help, i know he is full of crap. i did want to punch him in the face. i wanted some where to ***** and stuff kfit103710 did that for me thanks. someone else has the SAME problem. i hope this help me to not get screwed. on monday i will be going in with guns blazing about this crap.

Rare1

Tell them to put it on paper their professional diagnostic and if they write on there that you are to heavy, or what ever. Call lexus consumer relations and tell them it's discrimination. Also send a letter to the GM at the dealership Or go and talk to him and explain the problem and give a copy of the diagnosis. Go above the Service manager. Otherwise see if a lawyer will take you case to sue the dealership for discrimination. Trust me LEXUS doesn't want that publicity. just make sure the discrimination is in writing.

BTW they are putting you in an unsafe vehicle, make sure you bring that up.

Slooooooow

iTrader: (1)

"....the relentless pursuit of perfection."

And if you're not physically perfect...stay the #$&* out of our cars.

Yeah I'm not sure that's the message they want to send.

Havok13154

i already called Lexus and made a compliant they are to get back to me by friday. going in today to get it in writing.

triplecore

I feel a law suit. I would complain for discrimination. It is not appropriate for the dealer to tell you that your weight is effecting your vehicle. If it is true then clearly Toyota/Lexus did not design vehicles to accommodate the variable weights in consumers and that is very ignorant. Then they should publish people of x lbs and greater should not buy their cars and I would see that greatly effecting there sales, PR and image.