rick_roll

Hey guys,

I've been lurking this forum for a couple of months, but I've just now registered. I have a little problem that I hope I can get some insight on from some of the experienced cl members here.

The other night I was driving my girlfriend's 95 es300 home from a party when the car died. We got it towed to a shop today and they told her that the motor was completely blown due to a problem with the engine not getting enough oil.

We're just weighing our options right now as to what we should do with the car. It has around 180k miles on the chassis and transmission and is absolutely great condition for its age, but, like I said, the motor is toast. We don't have a ton of money to buy a new car and we don't know what we should do with this one. It can't be worth a lot of money in the state it's in.

So guys, what do you think we should do with it?

New/refurbished motor
part-out
Try to trade it in for another car as-is
Junk the POS

Any other ideas? Thanks!

peter1965

not sure what the situation is there, but here in oz there is a pretty big trade in low-km second hand jap motors coming in. i have not heard much about them but i believe they are pretty cheap. cheers, pete

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

just buy a used motor and see what happens, they can be had for as little as 500 dollars, it's better then buying a whole new car

MJHSC400

2nd that one. The non-vvti motors (like yours) are much easier to get cheaply and a clean motor with 130k or less will run for another 200k if it was serviced properly.

Look for a reputable guy on ebay. There are some jdm resellers that have the older 1mzfe from the camry/avalon/es300 from japan with very low miles (50k or even less) and often sell very clean motors. The jdm motor usually wont have the egr stuff on it so you just swap your intake manifold onto the new one and rock and roll.

I've had guys do motor swaps for me for anywhere b/t $400 labor up to $700 labor, and as much as $1500 seems like, it's about 4 or 5 car payments and your done......

It's not normal for that motor to pop at 180k, and most run like new with that many miles. Ours has 200k and still gets 30mpg and runs awesome.

Look for a reseller that will provide you with actual compression numbers and very good feedback and you should get a really good motor-- JDM will usually have very low miles as Japan commuters usually didnt put many miles on their cars at least in the early 90's anyhow and it's easy to find 30k mile motors all day long.

Matt

rick_roll

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll definitely look around for a used motor and see what kind of deal I can on labor for installation.

It is really weird that the motor went out so early, though. My girlfriend has been taking it to a local shop for maintenance since she got it, and to be honest I think they weren't worth a crap. I've been suspicious of them since day one, and now with the motor done for it really makes me wonder how legit they are.

But anyways, I'll check back with updates to let you know what we ended up doing.

Thanks again.

djspawn00

it could've been the end result of sludge... go synthetic with the next engine..

MJHSC400

Yah it was probably sludge. BUT, what noise did it make, I just hope its not a blown head gasket and theyre just trying to get one over on you..

Usually will make a clack clack clack noise that changes with rpm's.... Couldn't miss it..

The sludge problem with the ES was in the later model's, 97 to 01 I think, and it was almost always proven to be neglectful owners who didn't change oil as often as they should.

I'm not knocking synthetic, but any good oil changed regularly won't sludge, it happens when the oil breaks down after it's gone past it's service life then starts to burn off and that soot/sludge is condensed/reduced oil particulate that collects on surfaces as buildup over time.

It makes me think maybe she didnt change the oil as regularly as maybe she should.

It would be more normal for a head gasket to blow and cause the "dead motor" symptoms of not starting or running...

GEORGE_JET

I aggree with MJHSC400. Sludge is a common problem with these cars, most can be attributed to less than ideal maintenance. But was the car running well before it died?

If it just cut out as you were going down the road, I would have to think that the problem would be much more easy to fix. So, did you notice anything just before it died? Slugish, down on power, missfiring? Or was it running well, and then just died?

swifty562

i'm sure your motor is a 1mz.

i say swap your motor... i bought my mines from tigerjapanese.com

very good japanese import.

i purchase a 3vz motor for $490 + Frieght = $680 not sure tax was included.

received my motor in less then 2 weeks.

since yours is alittle new than the 3vz... it is listen for $890.00

but like "MJHSC400" mention, if u can find one on e-bay that is a respectable seller.. then by all means!


GOOD LUCK! (remember their are some slight differences in usd motors and jdm motors. EX EGR)

MJHSC400

Right, tell us what noises it made, if it smoked alot, if it started knocking or clacking, if it will still crank, etc...

A blown head gasket would make the car die too, and would also be due to a stuck $20 thermostat and would be much less money to get the car going.

I know he told you oil starvation, but I'm just checking his validity as a mechanic, some will try to rip you off or whatever. But I doubt he would tell you something like that if it just needed a head gasket too. If that was the case he could make some money on that job whereas he would be less likely to make some money on a blown motor where someone may just junk their car.

You just have to think of it this way. With new struts, tires, brakes, and a low miles motor, the car would be nicer than what all that money could buy if it all went to a new car, and if it's in great condition its worth keeping another 3 or 4 years.

Those 3 or 4 years equal as much as $15,000 or $20,000 in car payments, or just a $1500~$2000 motor swap.

All vehicles will need struts, tires, brakes and eventually ball joints and suspension bushings, so buying something else will not eliminate the need to spend that routine maintenance money.

Also, if you do get a low mileage JDM motor (from japan's market) commonly found on ebay you won't need to do the timing belt for a good while, maybe the rest of the time you own the car if you only go another 60k or 80k, so it should hold up that long easy...

All that to say recycling something that you have and like may seem costly up front, but it's far less than buying into another car altogether..

It's the idea of buying a whole new car just to get a functional engine. Whereas, if someone stole all the seats out of it, youd just get new seats, and that itself could cost $1000 some places....

Also, if youve done struts on it recently that's worth money too, and whatever you get may not have had that stuff done to it... It's all stuff to consider..

Also, referring to the JDM motors, you will just need an intake manifold gasket set, maybe about $50 so your mechanic can swap your old motors intake mani. onto the new motor, then everything should plug right up as long as you get the right year motor for your car. (The JDM guys like at tigerjapanese.com should have windom motors which are the japanese toyota counterpart to the es300 and will be the same minus the intake manifold for sure, but the motor guy should have this info.)--

Also, when you get the motor if you do, be sure to ask him the compression numbers and if he has a picture of the compression numbers on each cylinder. They usually do and you don't want them to be lower than 185 psi and even up to 200+ and not vary more than 15 psi between each other. This is very important so that you know for certain you are getting the low mileage motor they are actually advertising.

rick_roll

Wow, lots of replies. You guys are really coming through.

I'll give a little more detail on what happened when the car died.

It was driving normally as far as I could tell. I don't drive the car much, so I don't really know much about how it normally feels in terms of power and speed.

The only thing I could tell when it died was that right before it happened the engine was having a little trouble making it up a hill. It had to downshift to clear it, and I don't think it normally would have. Then the rpms just dropped... no clicking, grinding, or overheating. The engine seemed like it was seized when I tried to start it up. It would crank when I turned the ignition, and I tried to give it a little gas to get it running, but the motor sounded horrible when I did it. When I popped the hood to check it out, there was a little smoke, but I just don't know enough about these cars to have an idea what was wrong. (ie I completely suck)

In terms of maintenance, my girlfriend has been up-to-date with oil changes, etc. but she's only owned the car for the last 15000 miles or so.

I really don't trust the mechanic, but I haven't had a chance to deal with him yet. He was recommended by a friend of her parents, and they really don't know anything about cars.... At all. I recommended another mechanic to her, but when she called him he suggested she just take it back to the mechanic she's been going to because they were familiar with the car.

I'm looking around for a motor right now, and I appreciate the advice and feedback from all of you. I'll check back in soon.

MJHSC400

Sounds JUST like a head gasket to me. The motor will run and crank ONLY if you give it gas, alot of gas, and it will barely run but not really worth a crap. BUT, there won't be any clacking or clanking.

:EDIT: That would most likely be due to a siezed water pump secondly or a stuck thermostat firstly...

IF it threw a rod, due to oil starvation and high rpms' it would clack like hell or have some serious grinding or just plain metal to metal sounds.

If you didn't hear anything like that but it just ran like you may have unhooked 2 or 3 plug wires I bet money it's a head gasket. you can have them check the compression and I bet at least two cylinders are pumping maybe 40 psi, while the other 4 will be close to 200psi... That's one way to know and when they pull the plugs out the weak cylinders due to the gasket being blown will have some liquid on the plugs as coolant is being burned as it blows by the gasket into the cylinder.. So check your oil level, if it's a little high and you can visibly see milky whiteness after the motor runs for a few seconds and even tell there's water in it you know it's a head gasket.

You can also tell by smelling the exhaust, it should all of the sudden smoke now since the incident occured at least a little and there should be water in the oil...

Also check your coolant level, the coolant will normally be right up to the level of the cap when removed, and you'll hear a little pressure bleed off when you remove the cap in a healthy primed cooling system, but if the coolant is low it's a good sign you may have a blown head gasket.

IF you can find a decent mechanic charging HONEST labor rates, you could get it done for $500 easy or even a little less, but be prepared to look around a little to find that deal, as you'll hear a lot of people say, "Oh it's a lexus, well I'll do it for $1200" ....

Be sure to tell anyone you're talking to about doing the work that it's a camry, and don't tell them it's a lexus, as the job will be the exact same repair down to every little screw and connector just about, but they won't get that Lexus shock when you tell em what kind of car it is...

herbvdh

I was just through this with a 2001 Ford F250 V10 engine that my son bought for $3000 value was $12,000 reason so cheap a co-worker was told blown engine. Ran real rough like crap we replaced the plugs ran a little better.Went out with the truck one night and it really ran like $H!# now the transmission would not shift at all unless you did it manually drop to second back to 3rd. etc. Finally took it to Ford the next morning requested all fluids be changed. In about one hour they called up transfer case was 70,000 miles overdue for fluid change. (It had the factory seal still intact) about two hours later they called again you have a blown ignition coil and a fouled plug. Change it please. Called again in a few hours truck is done please pick it up. All fluids filters etc. ignitor and plug $1250 runs like it is just out of the factory. IMHO get a Lexus or a Toyota dealer to confirm this so called blown engine may well be worth there second opinion.

MJHSC400

Yah, a bad enough head gasket will act just like you pulled 3 plug wires off, as usually 2 or 3 plugs are getting wet enough to totally kill ignition.

That's also waaaay too much just to change the trans and xfer case fluid and a coilpack and even an ignitor. That's the stealership hard at work for ya there. It's common to see fluids cherry red when theyre 70k overdue, and I doubt it was very unlikely that was the reason for the bad shifting. There's no telling how many miles my blazer's overdue, it has about 180k on it now and drives perfect.

If the ignitor is bad or a coil it will throw a code and put the ecu into limp mode, where it wont shift out of 1st or 2nd and will pull lots of timing usually to keep you from driving it too far or too fast, it'll just limp. Autozone has the tools to scan your codes too, lexus or ford, just for future reference.

That shouldn't have gone over $650 for the total bill, parts and labor. Doing it yourself would be closer to $300, I mean you don't have to buy a ford brand ignitor and coil, beck arnley is good stuff too and they're half the price, or salvage yard stuff for that matter off a low mileage rig.

If there was a little smoke it really sounds like a coolant system issue to me also. IE, blown head gasket....

fju2112

This JUST happened to my wife's car now an hour ago. Said she was just driving along, turning on an exit ramp, and the steering started fighting her. she looked down, check engine, oil, and other lights lit up, then car just died in middle of exit ramp. Tow truck was called by state police and is being towed back to my mechanic. No doubt they will try to defer blame IF they are responsible. What the hell is going on? Bought it with 90K miles and have had it for just over one year with NO Problems and multiple oil changes, and let's not forget open-engine work done on schedule in December.

Have owned it for one year. Serviced at our trusted (maybe not so much anymore?) mechanic include timing belt & valve replacement (complete 90K service); transmission fluid; ac clutch recently replaced, etc. They also tried to program a remote key for me (key is a master key and works to start engine but couldn't get remote functionality working; they tried and couldn't do it either).