check engine light on - cylinder problem
04-06-09, 12:17 AM
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check engine light on - cylinder problem
I've got a 97 ES300 with a bit over 180K miles, and earlier in the week the check engine light went on. I'm thinking, it's a damn O2 sensor problem again (has happened twice to me), I'll take care of it later. Well, later the next day, I began to hear the engine vibrating quite a bit on idle and running at low speeds, like if the car was going to stall.
I figured there was something more major was going on, so I took it the next morning to a pretty familiar place close by that specialized in Toyota/Lexus cars. My usual mechanic's place was a bit too far away (20 miles) for my comfort. The code came up as a cylinder #4 misfire. At first the mechanic thought it was a coil problem, but after fixing that, upon the test drive, the light came on again after a couple of minutes. Further inspection revealed that the fuel injector for cylinder #4 was bad, and a new one (supposedly factory injector) was put in.
Total cost was 2 hours of labor and the injector was $179. Everything is back to normal - in fact the ride seems a bit quieter than usual.
Questions:
1) does 2 hours of labor and $179 for the injector sound about right, or too much time/cost?
2) I had just had my 180K service done less than a month prior - is this something that could have been caught or prevented before it got to this point?
3) could there be more injectors in the future that fail, or is this a pretty hardy piece of equipment? Is there any preventative maintenance that I can do?
I figured there was something more major was going on, so I took it the next morning to a pretty familiar place close by that specialized in Toyota/Lexus cars. My usual mechanic's place was a bit too far away (20 miles) for my comfort. The code came up as a cylinder #4 misfire. At first the mechanic thought it was a coil problem, but after fixing that, upon the test drive, the light came on again after a couple of minutes. Further inspection revealed that the fuel injector for cylinder #4 was bad, and a new one (supposedly factory injector) was put in.
Total cost was 2 hours of labor and the injector was $179. Everything is back to normal - in fact the ride seems a bit quieter than usual.
Questions:
1) does 2 hours of labor and $179 for the injector sound about right, or too much time/cost?
2) I had just had my 180K service done less than a month prior - is this something that could have been caught or prevented before it got to this point?
3) could there be more injectors in the future that fail, or is this a pretty hardy piece of equipment? Is there any preventative maintenance that I can do?
04-06-09, 06:25 AM
#2
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the labor hr is slightly too high.....
the part cost is reasonable
i can't tel you for sure if it was the injector causing the problem or what you can d to tstop that, especially without seeing the car in person. but i can tell you 180K mile car with a injector going bad is normal...
but he misdiagnosed the problem as being the coil. how is it your fault to pay for all that labor.... if he knew what he was doing, he would have KNOWN it was not the coil or was not the injector. unless he told you there was a chance he was wrong before beginning his work, i would be pissed off someone charged me for their mistake
coil's get ohm-checked and output checked..... injectors get scoped out and the live data can be read from OBD-II computer scanner......... you can't just guess at what's wrong and call yourself a professional mechanic....
LAME!
the part cost is reasonable
i can't tel you for sure if it was the injector causing the problem or what you can d to tstop that, especially without seeing the car in person. but i can tell you 180K mile car with a injector going bad is normal...
but he misdiagnosed the problem as being the coil. how is it your fault to pay for all that labor.... if he knew what he was doing, he would have KNOWN it was not the coil or was not the injector. unless he told you there was a chance he was wrong before beginning his work, i would be pissed off someone charged me for their mistake
coil's get ohm-checked and output checked..... injectors get scoped out and the live data can be read from OBD-II computer scanner......... you can't just guess at what's wrong and call yourself a professional mechanic....
LAME!
Last edited by llcoolpass; 04-06-09 at 06:29 AM.
04-06-09, 12:57 PM
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The list book time to replace the injector is 2.5 hours (according to alldata). At $179 sounds like it was reasonable. Book hours do not take into account which injector it is. I don't agree with this practice, but that is the way a shop will estimate a job. Unfortunatly the only way around this is to learn how to do it yourself.
Also, if this time includes diagnostic, than it is quite reasonble.
Also, if this time includes diagnostic, than it is quite reasonble.
Last edited by GEORGE_JET; 04-06-09 at 01:13 PM.
04-06-09, 04:14 PM
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The list book time to replace the injector is 2.5 hours (according to alldata). At $179 sounds like it was reasonable. Book hours do not take into account which injector it is. I don't agree with this practice, but that is the way a shop will estimate a job. Unfortunatly the only way around this is to learn how to do it yourself.
Also, if this time includes diagnostic, than it is quite reasonble.
Also, if this time includes diagnostic, than it is quite reasonble.
04-06-09, 06:40 PM
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They did spend 2 hours on the whole thing including diagnosis. Though as the earlier poster said, I probably shouldn't have been charged for the misdiagnosis. They did explain to me afterwards that 95% of the time it is the coil packs, and rarely is it a fuel injector. On the other hand, they didn't charge me for the coil packs (how much is that?) and I got a free loaner car for the day.
Thanks for all the input. Where can I find this alldata manual?
Thanks for all the input. Where can I find this alldata manual?
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04-07-09, 04:25 AM
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If they gave you a coil pack, and a loaner, than I would say you got a good deal. You can get access to Alldata by going to their web site and purchasing a subscription. It's not to bad for one car, for multiple cars they give a discount.
04-07-09, 05:53 AM
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My mechanic friend has the full AllData pack, and the diagrams in it are almost absolutely unreadable - like REALLY crappy scans. A FSM or even better a Chiltons/Haynes (which has clear pictures which almost nothing else has) and very clear, CAD drawn wiring diagrams and illustrations. Heck, I rebuilt my RX-7 engine from a Chiltons/Haynes manual!!
04-07-09, 10:51 AM
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383.58 including tax for injector replacement using dealer part.
475.35 for timing belt and water pump replacement using dealer parts, including fresh global antifreeze.
These are the prices I charge at my shop. I charge $80 per labor hour, going by book time. The price goes up if running into incidentals, such as stripped/ snapped bolts, etc. If you think your mechanics prices are high, it is your right as a consumer to check with the competition to see if you are getting the best deal. My prices may seem high, but I can guarantee we are 25 -50% cheaper than an STS or Midas. If you think can do it cheaper, by all means go ahead, it is your car, but I have all the tools, insurance, taxes and the like to pay for before I take a paycheck for myself.
I don't mean to introduce myself to the board as an arrogant *****, but I see things from the other side of the service counter. Thanks for reading, and next time consider all you are getting by having work done by a professional.
Steve Carroll
Carroll's Service Center
440 Grand Avenue
West Trenton, NJ 08628
(609) 883 7711
475.35 for timing belt and water pump replacement using dealer parts, including fresh global antifreeze.
These are the prices I charge at my shop. I charge $80 per labor hour, going by book time. The price goes up if running into incidentals, such as stripped/ snapped bolts, etc. If you think your mechanics prices are high, it is your right as a consumer to check with the competition to see if you are getting the best deal. My prices may seem high, but I can guarantee we are 25 -50% cheaper than an STS or Midas. If you think can do it cheaper, by all means go ahead, it is your car, but I have all the tools, insurance, taxes and the like to pay for before I take a paycheck for myself.
I don't mean to introduce myself to the board as an arrogant *****, but I see things from the other side of the service counter. Thanks for reading, and next time consider all you are getting by having work done by a professional.
Steve Carroll
Carroll's Service Center
440 Grand Avenue
West Trenton, NJ 08628
(609) 883 7711
04-07-09, 12:27 PM
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My mechanic friend has the full AllData pack, and the diagrams in it are almost absolutely unreadable - like REALLY crappy scans. A FSM or even better a Chiltons/Haynes (which has clear pictures which almost nothing else has) and very clear, CAD drawn wiring diagrams and illustrations. Heck, I rebuilt my RX-7 engine from a Chiltons/Haynes manual!!
04-07-09, 02:30 PM
#15
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in an hour of time, you should be able to tell the difference between an injector failure, and a coil failure. some shops charge a 1 hr full diagnostic fee of about 80 dollars. so how did they decide to change the coil... oh yeah, one big guess based on the rule of thumb, "95% of the time it's the coil," which while I agree, it doesn't mean I would say that was wrong with the car instead of actually diagnosing - especially since, as I only can suspect at this point, they charged this customer/lexus-club member a fee for diagnosing.