oil leak, opinions on management appreciated
01-05-10, 07:19 AM
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oil leak, opinions on management appreciated
My '98 ES has about 117k on it and since I bought it at 84k or so I have been running Mobil 1 syn 0W30 advanced fuel economy. Over the past year or so it has developed a very small, what I believe to be a rear main seal leak (over 5k miles it doesn't change dip stick reading at all).
Two things bug me about this:
1. we bought a new house and I can't park in the driveway or the garage without putting cardboard down to catch the 2-3 drops that come out
2. occasionally I'll get that oil smell coming into the car (rarely, but it occurs)
I bought some Auto RX and plan on doing the seal maintenance treatment today with some 10w30 dino oil (we live in TX now and it NEVER gets below 20 degrees so I figured it would be safe to go away from the 0W30.
Auto RX states that for seals you should continue to use dino oil, but CAN switch to syn if you must. I need to keep this car for another 5-6yrs, and want to continue to run synthetic motor oil.
Questions for the esteemed CL members:
1. Will switching to a thicker synthetic oil such as 10W30 help (over my current 0W30) to reduce leaks after my Auto RX treatment? Or does the 30 denote the operating temp and it won't make a difference.
2. I know 5W30 is "recommendend" does anybody run 10W30 in their ES's? Any drawbacks?
Thanks
Two things bug me about this:
1. we bought a new house and I can't park in the driveway or the garage without putting cardboard down to catch the 2-3 drops that come out
2. occasionally I'll get that oil smell coming into the car (rarely, but it occurs)
I bought some Auto RX and plan on doing the seal maintenance treatment today with some 10w30 dino oil (we live in TX now and it NEVER gets below 20 degrees so I figured it would be safe to go away from the 0W30.
Auto RX states that for seals you should continue to use dino oil, but CAN switch to syn if you must. I need to keep this car for another 5-6yrs, and want to continue to run synthetic motor oil.
Questions for the esteemed CL members:
1. Will switching to a thicker synthetic oil such as 10W30 help (over my current 0W30) to reduce leaks after my Auto RX treatment? Or does the 30 denote the operating temp and it won't make a difference.
2. I know 5W30 is "recommendend" does anybody run 10W30 in their ES's? Any drawbacks?
Thanks
01-05-10, 08:28 AM
#2
Lexus Champion
This is what I would do. You will get many other opinions, so at the end of the day, You decide.
1) Confirm the source of the Oil leak. Make sure the source is not a rear valve cover gasket. PCV rubber grommet, rear spark plug tube grommets, etc..
2) Fix the problem. If you can't afford to fix it right now, than live with it till you can. Cardboard is a cheap temporary alternative till you fix it properly.
3) Switch to Mobil-1 5W30. This may help. (0W30 was a bit on the thin side).
4) Don't even think of using Auto RX, or ANY other oil additive.
Note 1: 10W30 is OK for summer, but not for Winter. 5W30 is a year around oil,
Note 2: Mobil-1 is one of the best, surpassed perhaps only by AMSOIL.
Phil
1) Confirm the source of the Oil leak. Make sure the source is not a rear valve cover gasket. PCV rubber grommet, rear spark plug tube grommets, etc..
2) Fix the problem. If you can't afford to fix it right now, than live with it till you can. Cardboard is a cheap temporary alternative till you fix it properly.
3) Switch to Mobil-1 5W30. This may help. (0W30 was a bit on the thin side).
4) Don't even think of using Auto RX, or ANY other oil additive.
Note 1: 10W30 is OK for summer, but not for Winter. 5W30 is a year around oil,
Note 2: Mobil-1 is one of the best, surpassed perhaps only by AMSOIL.
Phil
Last edited by PFB; 01-05-10 at 10:31 AM.
01-05-10, 01:23 PM
#5
Super Moderator
I'll add my 2 cents.
Mobil 1 0W30 is one of their better oils along with their 0W40 (I won't touch their 5W30 in my RX300 barring a miracle given consumption issues I had when I was in Mexico with it), but if you are going to use Auto RX look at using something like Chevron's dyno oil it comes in 5W30 or even Castrol GTX. Yes, the 0W30 is a thin one.
You might remember this from the RX300 forum, but I mention the Castrol Syntec 0W30 (Pep Boys or Autozone carries it) and that is one of your best bets. Other ones would be Amsoil 0W30 or Pennzoil Platinum 5W30. Those are 'heavy' 30s and should do the job if you want to go synthetic here.
For additives go ahead and try the AutoRX now that you have it, but there are cheaper and more readily available options to try first such as Restore Oil Additive (most auto parts stores have it) along with Lubro Moly Motor Oil Saver (I've seen this at Napa). I had good experience with both of those last two products along with many friends both back in Mexico and here in the U.S.
Mobil 1 0W30 is one of their better oils along with their 0W40 (I won't touch their 5W30 in my RX300 barring a miracle given consumption issues I had when I was in Mexico with it), but if you are going to use Auto RX look at using something like Chevron's dyno oil it comes in 5W30 or even Castrol GTX. Yes, the 0W30 is a thin one.
You might remember this from the RX300 forum, but I mention the Castrol Syntec 0W30 (Pep Boys or Autozone carries it) and that is one of your best bets. Other ones would be Amsoil 0W30 or Pennzoil Platinum 5W30. Those are 'heavy' 30s and should do the job if you want to go synthetic here.
For additives go ahead and try the AutoRX now that you have it, but there are cheaper and more readily available options to try first such as Restore Oil Additive (most auto parts stores have it) along with Lubro Moly Motor Oil Saver (I've seen this at Napa). I had good experience with both of those last two products along with many friends both back in Mexico and here in the U.S.
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01-05-10, 05:25 PM
#8
Lexus Champion
At best Oil Additives (Including, but not limited to Auto-RX) serve as psychological placebos. At worst they can damage your engine, and/or catalytic converter. Most of the time the results are somewhere in between.
The ultimate authority is the Car manufacturer, as well as the major OIl manufacturing Companies. (Please no conspiracy theorists). They all, without exception, state not to use ANY oil additives.
Thats as far as I am going to go with my advise. As I said in my original reply to you (second post). "This is what I would do. You will get many other opinions, so at the end of the day, you decide"
Phil
Last edited by PFB; 01-05-10 at 06:03 PM.
01-05-10, 09:58 PM
#9
Lexus Champion
PFB is completely wrong. and ill tell you why.
in texas, you should not be using 0w-30. maybe in certain climates there it might be 'ok', but in general, no. in canada, yes.
in texas, you should be using 10w30 or "thicker" oil for places there with really hot summers which would be 10w-40 [or possibly higher if you tow or really do the engine in].
but right now, if you have a leak from rear main seal, you have a pretty large job to do. and to preserve it , you should get an oil [like mobil one 10w30] and stick to it.
good luck
the engine gets hotter than cars in climates like alberta canada. this means the oil will be effectively a thinner 30 at the higher temperature. i hope that makes sense in laymen terms for why wise people use 40 weight oil in hot climates like yours. the first number is at a prescribed initial temperature. the lower that number is, the tendency is for it to be thinner, as ambient temperatures drop, than a comparison oil of higher number. so 5w30 will tend to flow better at 0F than 10w30. Since you have little exposure to such a low temperature, and because more additives break down making the oil even less thick once warmed up which is even worse for you in texas hot climate and leads to sludge, a higher first number is better. Technically, in many places in texas, you could get away with using non mutigrade oils especially in certain seasons [in other words striaght 30 w or straigh 40]. But that's not necessary if you have any doubts about the weather. the mobil one 0w-40 is extremely high tech almost exotic oil that will definetely handle the heat, and the cold. its also got stuff to keep the engine in better shape longer than most oils dont have [zinc] in the concentrations they used to just 9 years ago because of bogus claims and over imaginitive fears that it will hurt catalytic converters prematurely which affects OEM because they warranty those parts. of course, oil blow by in the rings and such doesn't occur enough for that to happen, unless the engine is really old, which means the cat is already out of warranty and/or even the small amount in a normal api SM oil will be quite readily contaminating away at that cat.
your oil leak should be fixed properly. first identify the source. you shuld know with conviction if the rear main seal is leaking, especially before you take a chance with some magical oil additive. that's just meat and potatoes simple stuff right there.
5w-30 is the all around oil which is 'fine' for 'average' climates, but you want your engine to last longer and run better so you can use 10w30 or better for Texas. if you really do the merry go roudn with your driving, into different climates, 0w-40 [mobil 1] would be great.
in texas, you should not be using 0w-30. maybe in certain climates there it might be 'ok', but in general, no. in canada, yes.
in texas, you should be using 10w30 or "thicker" oil for places there with really hot summers which would be 10w-40 [or possibly higher if you tow or really do the engine in].
but right now, if you have a leak from rear main seal, you have a pretty large job to do. and to preserve it , you should get an oil [like mobil one 10w30] and stick to it.
good luck
the engine gets hotter than cars in climates like alberta canada. this means the oil will be effectively a thinner 30 at the higher temperature. i hope that makes sense in laymen terms for why wise people use 40 weight oil in hot climates like yours. the first number is at a prescribed initial temperature. the lower that number is, the tendency is for it to be thinner, as ambient temperatures drop, than a comparison oil of higher number. so 5w30 will tend to flow better at 0F than 10w30. Since you have little exposure to such a low temperature, and because more additives break down making the oil even less thick once warmed up which is even worse for you in texas hot climate and leads to sludge, a higher first number is better. Technically, in many places in texas, you could get away with using non mutigrade oils especially in certain seasons [in other words striaght 30 w or straigh 40]. But that's not necessary if you have any doubts about the weather. the mobil one 0w-40 is extremely high tech almost exotic oil that will definetely handle the heat, and the cold. its also got stuff to keep the engine in better shape longer than most oils dont have [zinc] in the concentrations they used to just 9 years ago because of bogus claims and over imaginitive fears that it will hurt catalytic converters prematurely which affects OEM because they warranty those parts. of course, oil blow by in the rings and such doesn't occur enough for that to happen, unless the engine is really old, which means the cat is already out of warranty and/or even the small amount in a normal api SM oil will be quite readily contaminating away at that cat.
your oil leak should be fixed properly. first identify the source. you shuld know with conviction if the rear main seal is leaking, especially before you take a chance with some magical oil additive. that's just meat and potatoes simple stuff right there.
5w-30 is the all around oil which is 'fine' for 'average' climates, but you want your engine to last longer and run better so you can use 10w30 or better for Texas. if you really do the merry go roudn with your driving, into different climates, 0w-40 [mobil 1] would be great.
Last edited by llcoolpass; 01-05-10 at 10:27 PM.
01-05-10, 10:11 PM
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I've had pretty good experience with mobil one 5w-30 EP. I've been using it since 58k and I have 111k now, about 3.5 years time on my 1997. That being said I agree with ill i'd be using 10w-30 in texas.
Had a look at the bottom end doing a oil pan a few months ago and to say the least i was very impressed by the cleanliness of everything. Seems the m1 actually cleaned up the engine quite a bit from its dino days prior to my ownership.
I've had a small rvcg leak the whole time. Nothing from the rms. Not enough to register in 5k oil change windows like yourself and maybe a quarter quart when I was doing 7.5k windows. It leaks a drop or two overnight. No change yet. I get a tiny whiff from the vent occasionally on a hot day.
As for the additives, I'm with the concensus, I wouldn't do it. I gotta say I'm eager to see the results at the same time if you chose to go that route.
Had a look at the bottom end doing a oil pan a few months ago and to say the least i was very impressed by the cleanliness of everything. Seems the m1 actually cleaned up the engine quite a bit from its dino days prior to my ownership.
I've had a small rvcg leak the whole time. Nothing from the rms. Not enough to register in 5k oil change windows like yourself and maybe a quarter quart when I was doing 7.5k windows. It leaks a drop or two overnight. No change yet. I get a tiny whiff from the vent occasionally on a hot day.
As for the additives, I'm with the concensus, I wouldn't do it. I gotta say I'm eager to see the results at the same time if you chose to go that route.
Last edited by 97'ES; 01-05-10 at 10:18 PM.
01-05-10, 10:22 PM
#11
Lexus Champion
97es,
barrs rear main seal leak additive is the only thing that says it will stop the leak. but that's doubtful. a lot of those products just thicken the oil and try to swell the seals. rear main is hard thing to stop the leak though.
again, the hot climate combined with thin oil then leaks develop is part of what has happened, one can reasonably theorize.
I would like to know how it works out with this product, but I won't lie just to hear this person try it. they must find the source and if its the rear main, they must replace it. you must also determine if the oil has been continually over capacity [volume] leading to this premature leak. that can make the leak get worse faster , besides making the leak happen in the first place. most drivers don't know that overfilling oil leads to bad rear main seals. you could have a catastrophic failure of this seal and you could lose a lot of motor oil, but I dont think this particular engine would have enough loss to fail, but it's possible, especially on a long road trip if you didn't notice.
i agree about mobil one. i also like valvoline max life. they are both excellent motor oils. and i say this from experience not because of advertising or my uncle jimbo or something along that.
barrs rear main seal leak additive is the only thing that says it will stop the leak. but that's doubtful. a lot of those products just thicken the oil and try to swell the seals. rear main is hard thing to stop the leak though.
again, the hot climate combined with thin oil then leaks develop is part of what has happened, one can reasonably theorize.
I would like to know how it works out with this product, but I won't lie just to hear this person try it. they must find the source and if its the rear main, they must replace it. you must also determine if the oil has been continually over capacity [volume] leading to this premature leak. that can make the leak get worse faster , besides making the leak happen in the first place. most drivers don't know that overfilling oil leads to bad rear main seals. you could have a catastrophic failure of this seal and you could lose a lot of motor oil, but I dont think this particular engine would have enough loss to fail, but it's possible, especially on a long road trip if you didn't notice.
i agree about mobil one. i also like valvoline max life. they are both excellent motor oils. and i say this from experience not because of advertising or my uncle jimbo or something along that.
Last edited by llcoolpass; 01-05-10 at 10:31 PM.
01-06-10, 12:35 AM
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yeah I'm with you. I don't want him to be the guinea pig so to speak.
I tried the full synthetic maxlife, I actually drained it after 500 miles, the car idled like a truck and lost power seat of the pants. I mean it was noticeable. This was after running M1 ep for quite some time. threw the m1 back in, ran smooth as silk. I do however run the normal blend maxlife in my mothers mitsubishi which I believe you were referring to. It does the job.
I've had friends say good things about the full synthetic, that was just my experience.
People do routinely overfill, but what can you do... I've tried to tell people myself they were gonna blow a seal when they would overfill trying to compensate for a leak. Not my problem....
Let us know what you end up doing alaskaty.
I tried the full synthetic maxlife, I actually drained it after 500 miles, the car idled like a truck and lost power seat of the pants. I mean it was noticeable. This was after running M1 ep for quite some time. threw the m1 back in, ran smooth as silk. I do however run the normal blend maxlife in my mothers mitsubishi which I believe you were referring to. It does the job.
I've had friends say good things about the full synthetic, that was just my experience.
People do routinely overfill, but what can you do... I've tried to tell people myself they were gonna blow a seal when they would overfill trying to compensate for a leak. Not my problem....
Let us know what you end up doing alaskaty.
01-06-10, 01:32 PM
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In the next couple of days I'll take some pictures of my engine...it looks like there is a leak coming from the front valve cover, at least it has tons of grime stuck to it when I took off the plastic Lexus cover. I haven't really assessed the back, but I'm sure it could be rear valve cover or rear main seal (I saw a pic someone else posted and it looked similar to my leak). I'll try and lend more information.
01-06-10, 02:44 PM
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yeah some pics would be awesome, I'm sure if they are original both valve covers are leaking. I doubt they are original though, they seem to last about 50k from what I've read on here and my own cars maintenance records unless u use a different process which I believe is posted on here somewhere.
Last edited by 97'ES; 01-06-10 at 02:53 PM.