Lexusfreak

No arguement on the handling I see ...I was making a point regarding the overall package...including the stock suspension compared to other vehicles of similar size back in the day...based on that the ES 5 speed would have gotten smoked in the corners regardless of HP.

03 ES

My 2003 ES300 is no slouch...210hp is plenty of get up and go to merge on highways or have a bit of fun on a straight road, but its no monster...noone will ever call it fast, but its not "slow"....
corners are a bit of a challenge for the ES being that its no sport sedan...it tends to have a good amount of body roll...I however have installed the TRD rear sway bar and front strut bar from a 2002-2006 camry, so my car has much less body roll than it should...i believe my car is a nice balence of comfort and performance and it makes a perfect daily driver.

llcoolpass

body roll doesn't make or break a sports sedan, body roll is a desired trait on some tracks, and certainly is not bad idea for a road going car which, as it turns out, is what most of us are on.

lexusfreak, the cars at the time mine came out were not better. i have several different magazine reviews that were surprised to find the es was just as good as the bmw competition at sports sedan ..... ness. because you didn't research this or experience it, you can't expect people to care about your opinion on the matter. further, you seem to be basing your opinion on your own, different car. or fluffy bunnies.

03 ES

wasnt there a nice sports sedan article from 92 that surfaced around here not long ago that put the ES at #2 out of like 10 cars (everything from the acura legend to the saab 9000) in a sports sedan comparason? it was like 2 points behind the bmw 3 series that won...the 2ES was a very impressive car at the time and it still is....
the subsequent ES models became softer as time went on because the IS came along as the value priced sports sedan and the ES became more of a luxury sedan...the 2ES was billed as a sports sedan...
i think the 3ES and foreward went for a more luxury appeal.

Lexusfreak

Actually ll, I have much more experience than I am given credit for & also have old magazine articles to prove my comments & yes I have had 'seat' of the pants experience with a 5 speed manual ES as well as the same vintage Nissan Maximas (as the example I used) on closed slalom courses back in the 90's among a shopping list of other vehicles thanks.

Because you own a ES (of which only 2.5% were equipped with a manual tranny...which sounds very important, but sadly isn't) does not make it 'gospel' that it's a 'sport sedan' (which is also very telling about the nature & mission the ES had back then to begin with. )...more sporty or sportier...I'll give you that...sure....but still not a sport sedan.

My overall 'experience' has also taught me one other thing however ll...it's not worth getting into a peeing contest with a Skunk about something so childish. I'm sure you'll learn that in time...With that, I bid you happy motoring.

llcoolpass

the 1993 maxima se [which got it's own engine foudn no where else, so to borrow your phrase "which is also very telling about the nature & mission"] 5spd has the same acceleration in the mags as the 1993 lexus es 300 5spd. if youare talking about offramp performance or trackability, they were also about the same. also, the bmw was about the same. but in regular driving, the maxima and the es 300 in 1993 were very good due to low rpm torque. bmw in question sucked at that aspect. maxima wasn't quite as nice inside, but not bad. bmw pretty crappy inside. es300 very nice inside. winner: es 300.

the camry se [v6 5spd] in 1993, with the better final gear ratio, is quicker in the 0-60 than the es 300 ... this also means its faster than maxima and bmw by a good margin. nissan would only beat that in 1995 model.

handling is subjective. i prefer the bmw, but only a little bit more than es 300.

If paper beats rock, rock beats scissors, and scissors beats paper, what beats all 3 at the same time? Answer: Chuck Norris.

03 ES

at the end of the day i LOVE the ES300 and i dont like the maxima or BMW, so we know what id choose.

the ES is a good blend of everything, which makes it the perfect daily driver.

llcoolpass

"at the end of the day i LOVE the ES300 and i dont like the maxima or BMW, so we know what id choose.

the ES is a good blend of everything, which makes it the perfect daily driver."

If you replace "The" in "the ES" with "1992/1993 5spd lexus es 300," then I shall agree! HAHA

this thread is so off topic

adreano17

i thought wiki said 188 for a 96. this is a surprise if so. cananyone confirm this?

llcoolpass

well they kept changing the ratings and the rating system in the 90s. all you need to know is, until they had vvti, the 3vzfe was more powerful and had a much broader [flat] torque curve. it weighed more too, but has enough low rpm torque to overcompensate in comparison to 1mz-fe. 1mzfe with vvti , not bad, but still, not quite as good at 3vzfe at really low rpm. but 1mz-fe is a smoth engine at higher rpm [like 3000] compared to 3vz-fe, but 3vz-fe is smoother at low rpm like 1000-2000. high rpm[4500+], they are about the same or are hard to tell. 1mzfe seems a little bit quieter.

mmlex1987

Some of these threads appear to be more of a debate/personal opinion sound off.

Lexusfreak

Exactly mmlex.

03 ES

Its an internet fourm....most things here are opinion based and usually spark debates/arguments/mud slinging

97'ES

First, the 3vz was never more powerful overall then any 1mz. Second, while a larger percentage of torque is available at lower rpms with the 3vz, agreed its slightly more tractable, I've driven a 94' ES. However, like I said in the other thread, the torque peak occurs higher in the rev range, and there is less of it, period, horsepower peak also arrives higher in the rev range. Misleading? maybe. But still fact from lexus service manuals checked against numbers here and various online sources (my ego not one of them) . I'm talking versus a non vvti 1mz as well.

Your wrong, deal with it. And no I don't have any opinion on Tacoma and 4 runner mixed aluminum top and iron bottom end motor builds. Probly good for a turbo. I don't care for tall truck motors in my car thank you.... ahem....... lol

Third, the 1mz is smoother period. Electronic ignition( not to be discounted), All aluminum, lighter as i said in other thread, then you said again, and its reciprocating mass is inherently less due to lighter parts. It has better quality mounts too from what I've seen, but that's straight opinion. Its smoother and quieter. Id like to see one other person disagree when talking overall smoothness. I know someone will too be a *****. Will the stock internals hold up to boost as long as a 3vz? no, too much compression and lighter parts. Do I care? no. I don't think asg does either judging by his quarter mile times.....

Also which engine made wards ten best in 1996? I forgot. Some impressive company on that list if you look throughout the years. Ill give you a hint which one never made it..... its the "franken" [sic] truck engine with higher flowing heads (pre 1mz) and a history of overheating and bad head gaskets ( generally due to poor maintenance to be fair) due to a stopgap solution for the ES, with toyota still being in development of its smoother, slightly more efficient, mono- alloy and less polluting U.S. market predecessor, The 1mz-fe....

Before you go to the sludge bs check the numbers, with proper maintenance its basically non existant https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...-purchase.html If you wanna argue a 3vz can be neglected more and survive? Got me there. I'm not bashing the 3vz- fe. I actually like it, maybe even prefer it. But you give people bad opinion based info bashing the 1mz every chance you get and misleading people about engine sludge especially. I'm sure lexusfreak, pfb, and others will agree.

I think you have the all aluminum envy my friend. Its ok, You'll survive. btw, I've driven a vvti 1mz as well. It would take a very discerning butt to tell any difference between vvti and non vvti.

Pissing contests are entertaining at least.... with basically no moderation in this forum its all we have left lol.