CEL - trac off - codes, symptom and help
11-14-10, 12:53 PM
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CEL - trac off - codes, symptom and help
hi everyone
i am new to the forum and want to thank you all in advance. i've spent many hours here reading your posts and finally have a topic of my own.
I have a 1999 ES 300 with 190K miles. It has been a fantastic car. Few months back, however, the check engine light came on as well as the trac off light. The CEL (check engine light) blinks while the TRAC OFF stays solid.
The car is still driveable, but is very sluggish and of course will not shift into the higher gear, so going over 50mph you are at very high rpm. Sometimes, if from a stop, you have almost no pickup at all and it will take a good solid 20 seconds to get to 25 miles per hour. It is dangerous in busy streets. Lately, it seems as though it has a semi-hard time starting and sometimes the battery is dead (and the battery was just replaced with a repaired battery, although this could simply be a bad battery and not correlated to the actual issue I am posting about).
I took the car to a mechanic shop that said that the front 3 spark plugs are fuel fouled and cylinder 2 ignition coil needs to be replaced. They of course wanted to replace all six ignition coils ($100+ each) and all six spark plugs. I told them that i'll simply replace the front 3 spark plugs and the number 2 ignition coil myself.
So I did just that. I replaced the front three spark plugs, which were recently replaced less than 1000 miles ago when this issue first came about. I also replaced the front passenger side ignition coil, which is #2. I drove the car around for about 10 minutes and it worked fairly well. The trac off light was off and the check engline light would be off for about 2 minutes and then come on for about 30 seconds and then off again for 2 minutes. I didn't have any pickup issues and it would idle smoothly. I thought that I fixed the problem.
However, since the check engine light was still coming off and on I decided to go to Autozone to get it tested. This was the next day and I turn on the car and i instantly know that it is back into its "bad state" with the check engine light constantly blinking and the trac off light lit. Very sluggish and will not go into the higher gears and very shakey and low rpm idle. What in the world changed from one day to the next while the car was in the garage?
I went to autozone which gave me the error codes:
P300 - random cylinder misfire detected
P302 - cylinder 2 misfire detected
P303 - cylinder 3 misfire detected
P304 - cylinder 4 misfire detected
Keep in mind that I didn't drive the car more than 40 miles after replacing the front 3 spark plugs and #2 ignition coil. However, look at the code P302, it says cylinder 2 misfire detected. How could that be if I replaced the spark plug and ignition coil for #2?
I think that this is something more than spark plugs and ignition coils, although I don't have the expertise to know. Autozone recommended I put in some ignition cleaner into the gas tank for $5 which I have done but don't expect it to fix the issue. Reading here on the forum someone stated to clean the gas cap and unplug the battery which will reset the cel, but again, something is telling me that this won't permanently fix the issue.
Can someone out there that knows these cars well help me cross the road into a solution? The car has been absolutely fantastic and I want it to last about 20k more miles (i just want to get over 200k miles!)
i am new to the forum and want to thank you all in advance. i've spent many hours here reading your posts and finally have a topic of my own.
I have a 1999 ES 300 with 190K miles. It has been a fantastic car. Few months back, however, the check engine light came on as well as the trac off light. The CEL (check engine light) blinks while the TRAC OFF stays solid.
The car is still driveable, but is very sluggish and of course will not shift into the higher gear, so going over 50mph you are at very high rpm. Sometimes, if from a stop, you have almost no pickup at all and it will take a good solid 20 seconds to get to 25 miles per hour. It is dangerous in busy streets. Lately, it seems as though it has a semi-hard time starting and sometimes the battery is dead (and the battery was just replaced with a repaired battery, although this could simply be a bad battery and not correlated to the actual issue I am posting about).
I took the car to a mechanic shop that said that the front 3 spark plugs are fuel fouled and cylinder 2 ignition coil needs to be replaced. They of course wanted to replace all six ignition coils ($100+ each) and all six spark plugs. I told them that i'll simply replace the front 3 spark plugs and the number 2 ignition coil myself.
So I did just that. I replaced the front three spark plugs, which were recently replaced less than 1000 miles ago when this issue first came about. I also replaced the front passenger side ignition coil, which is #2. I drove the car around for about 10 minutes and it worked fairly well. The trac off light was off and the check engline light would be off for about 2 minutes and then come on for about 30 seconds and then off again for 2 minutes. I didn't have any pickup issues and it would idle smoothly. I thought that I fixed the problem.
However, since the check engine light was still coming off and on I decided to go to Autozone to get it tested. This was the next day and I turn on the car and i instantly know that it is back into its "bad state" with the check engine light constantly blinking and the trac off light lit. Very sluggish and will not go into the higher gears and very shakey and low rpm idle. What in the world changed from one day to the next while the car was in the garage?
I went to autozone which gave me the error codes:
P300 - random cylinder misfire detected
P302 - cylinder 2 misfire detected
P303 - cylinder 3 misfire detected
P304 - cylinder 4 misfire detected
Keep in mind that I didn't drive the car more than 40 miles after replacing the front 3 spark plugs and #2 ignition coil. However, look at the code P302, it says cylinder 2 misfire detected. How could that be if I replaced the spark plug and ignition coil for #2?
I think that this is something more than spark plugs and ignition coils, although I don't have the expertise to know. Autozone recommended I put in some ignition cleaner into the gas tank for $5 which I have done but don't expect it to fix the issue. Reading here on the forum someone stated to clean the gas cap and unplug the battery which will reset the cel, but again, something is telling me that this won't permanently fix the issue.
Can someone out there that knows these cars well help me cross the road into a solution? The car has been absolutely fantastic and I want it to last about 20k more miles (i just want to get over 200k miles!)
11-14-10, 04:32 PM
#2
Welcome to the forum!
Its hard to diagnose with that many cylinder codes at the same time.
I would suggest getting a OBD2 code reader if you plan on keeping it a while. they are about $40.00 and are worth it. Its an easy way of clearing codes, and is better than disconnecting your battery all the time.
Whats odd to me here is the P303 code for the rear bank. Could be another coil.
What makes you think its the front left (Number 2) again?
(-Did you plug the #2 coil wire clip back on the coil? Sorry, I have to ask.)
You could of had a lot of unburnt fuel in the front bank of plugs, triggering those codes again.
I would clear the codes and see which one comes up first again.
Let us know what you find.-
barryst
I have the same engine in my rx with over 300,000 miles on it.
Its hard to diagnose with that many cylinder codes at the same time.
I would suggest getting a OBD2 code reader if you plan on keeping it a while. they are about $40.00 and are worth it. Its an easy way of clearing codes, and is better than disconnecting your battery all the time.
Whats odd to me here is the P303 code for the rear bank. Could be another coil.
What makes you think its the front left (Number 2) again?
(-Did you plug the #2 coil wire clip back on the coil? Sorry, I have to ask.)
You could of had a lot of unburnt fuel in the front bank of plugs, triggering those codes again.
I would clear the codes and see which one comes up first again.
Let us know what you find.-
barryst
I have the same engine in my rx with over 300,000 miles on it.
11-15-10, 01:49 PM
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Hi Barryst
Thank you for the kind and quick reply.
I do not have a OBD2 code reader, although I have an Autozone less than 5 miles away. I could get one if needed.
The mechnic shop that I took the car to told me that number 2 coil was bad and that the front spark plugs are fuel fouled. Also, the P302 means the 2nd cyclinder misfire, so I assumed that based upon the mechnic saying 2 coil was bad and the code saying an issue with cylinder 2 meant that it was confirmed to be an issue. Of course, I replaced the coil and the front three spark plugs and no difference at all.
How would I burn up that fuel and how would I know?
On a side note, I have just swapped the ignition coil #4 and #6 (so #6 is in #4 and #4 is in #6) and took off the negative to the battery to undo the codes to see if I get a code issue on number 6 now rather than 4. After about 1 minute of the car being on the TRAC OFF and CEL came on (blinking). How many miles do I have to drive the car for it to go through its random cycle of tests or when I unplug the negative to the battery that should hard reset all of the codes?
Thank you for the kind and quick reply.
I do not have a OBD2 code reader, although I have an Autozone less than 5 miles away. I could get one if needed.
What makes you think its the front left (Number 2) again?
You could of had a lot of unburnt fuel in the front bank of plugs, triggering those codes again.
On a side note, I have just swapped the ignition coil #4 and #6 (so #6 is in #4 and #4 is in #6) and took off the negative to the battery to undo the codes to see if I get a code issue on number 6 now rather than 4. After about 1 minute of the car being on the TRAC OFF and CEL came on (blinking). How many miles do I have to drive the car for it to go through its random cycle of tests or when I unplug the negative to the battery that should hard reset all of the codes?
11-17-10, 04:59 PM
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I had the same codes as you do. On a fluke I checked my battery and alternator, the alty is not working at all. I have a new alternator sitting in my trunk right now so I can install it tomorrow, provided I don't sell the car tonight.
If the codes are accurate your car should be shaking like a son of a gun and running like absolute garbage. I have a scanner (not code-reader) that I have been using to read the codes and associated data as well as clear the codes.
If I still have the issues in the morn I will also be plugging into the ABS system to see the cause of the TCS light.
If the codes are accurate your car should be shaking like a son of a gun and running like absolute garbage. I have a scanner (not code-reader) that I have been using to read the codes and associated data as well as clear the codes.
If I still have the issues in the morn I will also be plugging into the ABS system to see the cause of the TCS light.
11-17-10, 05:32 PM
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UPDATE:
This returned that at Autozone I got the codes 300, 301, 306. So the issue of 304 now went to 306 which is great, because I swapped #4 and #6, so it actually gave me a code I wanted to see (the issue moved with the coil).
I then swapped #6 and #2 (remember, 306 is showing cylinder 6). I then went to Autozone and they checked and sure enough, 300, 301, 302. To again, the issue followed the coil. Yay! It looks like we another bad coil. However, this is where it gets weird.
I decided to swap #6 and #1 and change the #1 spark plug since I consisently got 301 for cylinder 1. Keep in mind that after all of this, this means that the #1 now has the brand new ignition coil and #6 now has the old #1 ignition coil. I go to Autozone and I get only one code. CODE: 302. Interesting, so we went from 300, 301, 302 and then I swap #1 and #6 and I only get code 302. The issue is that later that day I went to go to Autozone to buy an ignition coil to replace #2 and I decided for them to test the codes before doing so. The codes now say 300, 301, 302, 303 and 172 (i've never got 172).
What in the world happened? I thought that from all of the swapping and everything that I narrowed down that the issue was with cylinder #2 coil and I thought for sure that the #1 ignition coil that is now in #6 would give a 306 error but it didnt (so maybe all of the 301 error codes in the past were from spark plug)?
In any event, I am more confused now then ever. I don't want to just buy ignition coils at nearly a $100 a pop if they don't need to be replaced. I've gone from only getting one code of 302 and planning on buying one more ignition coil to replace #2 to nothing changing at all and now receiving 300, 301, 302, 303 and 172 codes.
I am in desperate need of some assistance or guidance. I will certainly buy more ignition coils, but now with the most recent error code readings, i'm not sure another ignition coil in #2 will do anything.
internetau - The car doesnt run absolutely terrible at idle. yes, it is a very rough idle, but with your foot on the break it doesnt even shake the car much at all. It is noticeable that it shouldnt be idling like that, but once you start going it is usually pretty good. At random times however at a complete stop it is EXTREMELY sluggish.
On a side note, I have just swapped the ignition coil #4 and #6 (so #6 is in #4 and #4 is in #6) and took off the negative to the battery to undo the codes to see if I get a code issue on number 6 now rather than 4.
I then swapped #6 and #2 (remember, 306 is showing cylinder 6). I then went to Autozone and they checked and sure enough, 300, 301, 302. To again, the issue followed the coil. Yay! It looks like we another bad coil. However, this is where it gets weird.
I decided to swap #6 and #1 and change the #1 spark plug since I consisently got 301 for cylinder 1. Keep in mind that after all of this, this means that the #1 now has the brand new ignition coil and #6 now has the old #1 ignition coil. I go to Autozone and I get only one code. CODE: 302. Interesting, so we went from 300, 301, 302 and then I swap #1 and #6 and I only get code 302. The issue is that later that day I went to go to Autozone to buy an ignition coil to replace #2 and I decided for them to test the codes before doing so. The codes now say 300, 301, 302, 303 and 172 (i've never got 172).
What in the world happened? I thought that from all of the swapping and everything that I narrowed down that the issue was with cylinder #2 coil and I thought for sure that the #1 ignition coil that is now in #6 would give a 306 error but it didnt (so maybe all of the 301 error codes in the past were from spark plug)?
In any event, I am more confused now then ever. I don't want to just buy ignition coils at nearly a $100 a pop if they don't need to be replaced. I've gone from only getting one code of 302 and planning on buying one more ignition coil to replace #2 to nothing changing at all and now receiving 300, 301, 302, 303 and 172 codes.
code P0172: System Too Rich
internetau - The car doesnt run absolutely terrible at idle. yes, it is a very rough idle, but with your foot on the break it doesnt even shake the car much at all. It is noticeable that it shouldnt be idling like that, but once you start going it is usually pretty good. At random times however at a complete stop it is EXTREMELY sluggish.
Last edited by forumsview; 11-17-10 at 08:21 PM.
11-18-10, 07:16 AM
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Hey Forumsview! Welcome to the forums.
I had a similar problem with my 1999 es300, it was always rough idling when i stopped and took off very slow. Have you tried cleaning your MAF (mass air flow sensor)? Your OCV (oil control valve) might be gunked up as well. Those two things can cause a lot problems and are pretty easy to fix yourself.
I had a similar problem with my 1999 es300, it was always rough idling when i stopped and took off very slow. Have you tried cleaning your MAF (mass air flow sensor)? Your OCV (oil control valve) might be gunked up as well. Those two things can cause a lot problems and are pretty easy to fix yourself.
11-18-10, 02:38 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought our cars have 3 coils on the front half of the engine, facing the radiator and three spark plug wires going to the back. I have a 98 ES300 and have only three coils with 3 spark plug wires going to the back/ rear side of the engine.
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11-18-10, 04:54 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought our cars have 3 coils on the front half of the engine, facing the radiator and three spark plug wires going to the back. I have a 98 ES300 and have only three coils with 3 spark plug wires going to the back/ rear side of the engine.
my 2000 has 6 coils.
11-18-10, 07:57 PM
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I had a similar problem with my 1999 es300, it was always rough idling when i stopped and took off very slow. Have you tried cleaning your MAF (mass air flow sensor)? Your OCV (oil control valve) might be gunked up as well. Those two things can cause a lot problems and are pretty easy to fix yourself.
I'm not familiar with OCV, any DIY instructions for this car specifically?
I also heard that it may be caused by the catalytic converter since having misfires may have caused raw gas or something to pile up inside of it and essentially block its flow? Any comments about this or other suggestions?
11-24-10, 03:38 AM
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replace the OCV (oil contol valve) you need the one for bank 2. lexus dealership has it for $99. one bolt holds it in 10mm and is right on the front. be careful when you unplug the electrical part though it has a clip that will break. i did mine my self. took me about 30 minutes and have not had the problem again. given i had already paid a mechanic 1200 to "fix" it.
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