Bermster

Just thought I would post on here about an ongoing problem with my '99 ES and see if anyone had any ideas. The problem started with a bad battery. The dealer replaced it, but the new battery only lasted a few months. The service advisor said it was probably just bad from the factory and he replaced it again. This happened a couple more times, with each battery lasting just a few months, and each time the service advisor denied that a problem with the car was causing it. Then, after moving, another lexus dealership replaced the alternator, as it tested bad. After having another battery go bad after the alternator was replaced, they finally did more thorough diagnostics and found out that the button that stores the driver's seat position was stuck, creating a parasitic draw. This seemed to solve the problem, and the car worked fine for about a year. Then, a little over a month ago, the car was getting to the point that it would barely start, and the alternator tested bad again. Because I live far from the Lexus dealer, and I needed the car functional immediately, I took the car to NTB, where they replaced the alternator, and informed me that the battery was shot and needed replacing, which I did. After about a month, the car was barely starting again, and I took it back to NTB and they tested the battery and found it was bad and replaced it. This weekend, I took the car back to the dealer to see if they could find any problems with the electrical system that would explain the problems I have been having, and although the starter tested out in the marginal range, they could find no other problems. Has this kind of problem happened to anyone else here? Is there anything you would suggest I have them look at that could be leading to this problem? The car is perfect otherwise, so I hate to have to give it up and spend money on a new one, but I can't keep getting stranded and replacing electrical components. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

donbryce

This is typical 'service' from far too many dealers, changing parts instead of doing diagnostics. I assume you paid for the first battery, then they covered the next 3 at dealer 1. Then you paid for alternator 1 at dealer 2, they covered alternator 2, then finally they did some real work and found the cause of it all. Anyway, you now had a good battery and alternator, for 1 year.

So the 2nd alternator from dealer 2 failed, and you paid for a replacement at NTB, and paid for another new battery. You don't say if the car now 'barely starts', but I'll assume so since you again went to the dealer for 'service' diagnostics...and the dealer is now suggesting a new starter?

OK, IMO, this dealer is throwing your time and money away, doesn't have any interest in fixing your car, and you should find a good local independent mechanic ASAP. Meanwhile, here's some 'armchair' mechanical advice.

Get a digital multimeter and test the battery daily for voltage. It should be 12V or slightly more, never less (engine off). With the engine idling, the battery terminals should read about 14V (alternator output, charging). If the battery shows a drop in voltage after sitting for hours, you likely have the same or another parasitic drain. The starter could be worn, taking a little more amperage to spin than it used to, but any starter will be hard to spin, or won't turn at all, if your battery voltage is less than 12V. Also, buy a battery charger so you can charge your battery up when needed, and you can test the starter yourself (fully charged, does the battery spin the starter faster, if so, there's likely nothing wrong with the starter). The total cost of a multimeter and charger is less than 1 of those batteries BTW.

Oh, and avoid buying lottery tickets, if indeed all those batteries were actually bad, as the odds of getting 4 in a row are astronomical!

xsh0tya

Any aftermarket parts installed? Such as amp or starter or alarm?

Lexmex

Also see if a lojack was ever installed in it.

yeldogt

I'm always amazed at how mechanics will replace a part multiple times without doing a little more investigation. Hopefully the originally alternator was really going when they replaced it!

As cars age all kinds of strange things can happen - components get weak and work on the margin. It is also not uncommon for some of the less expensive "rebuilt" electrical parts to fail prematurely.


When you say the car will not start what is it doing? Is the starter clicking or cranking slowly and then starting?


First, you need to make sure the battery is fully charged -- then you can check the starter. The Toyota starter has a replaceable set of contacts and a plunger that when they begin to fail draw more amps then the battery can provide and the starter will not crank properly. Often people think they have a bad battery when all is needed is the contacts in the starter. They are less than $30.00 and easy to replace. The factory parts are much better than the aftermarket replacements.

What was marginal about the starter? Did they tell you what was wrong with it?

pauloil

you probably have bad cables. fixing starting problems should start out with a voltage drop test on the cables, pos. and neg. see the link. Generally, under load with fan on high, headlights on and rear defroster and at 2000rpm will let you see the voltage drop of the starter cable and grounds. an easy way to check grounds is to run motor as above and then put jumper cable bet. motor and neg batt post: if voltage drop is 0.2V or higher, bad cable. it is like asking: how much voltage can't get through this cable?

http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm

Bermster

Nope, everything is stock except for the battery and alternator from NTB.

Bermster

The other times it would just crank slow. This last time there was the clicking noise, and then if you kept trying it, it would crank slowly and finally start.

I'm not sure, but I believe they said that the starter was marginal in the number of amps it was drawing.

Bermster

Ok, so I just get a multimeter and put one lead on a metal part of the engine and the other on the negative battery terminal under the conditions you described? Thanks.

Do you know if the ECM/ECU controls the alternator, or if the regulator is built into the alternator itself?

If I can verify that the cables are good, verify that there isn't a parasitic drain, and have a new battery, alternator, and starter, is there anything else that could cause failure in these parts?

One more thing I forgot to mention, for the last few weeks there has been an intermittent whining noise on acceleration. If you let off of the gas, the noise immediately stops. Then if you ease back on it starts again. I tried popping in into neutral and keeping the accelerator still, and the noise stays until you release the gas.

yeldogt

As I mentioned you may have had a few issues. Its an old car at this point -- how many miles?


A parasitic loss will kill a weakened battery -- so your first battery may have been on its way out ......and the constant draining killed it. The constant draining also stresses out the alternator as it must work to recharge the discharged battery - so you may have had a weak alternator that was also affected. In addition to this -- the high amp draw of the starter will make you think that the battery is weak -- when it's not.

We had a lot of problems with non-factory rebuilt starters and alternators -- we don't use them anymore. You may be getting a whine from the alternator - could be the diode pack or a bearing - we have had both problems--impossible to determine without seeing the car.

What you are describing is typical for the starter contacts in the solenoid -- do a google search and get the contacts and the plunger. The starter on most of these engines is sitting right in the front -- you can have it in and out in no time and it takes less than an hour working very slowly to fix the starter solenoid with common tools. You can check all the wires at the same time -- good saturday morning job. It's not going to get better -- the solenoid sits on top of the starter - it all comes out together. The whole job will not take two hours. Don't put it off -- one day it just won't work. The starter motor is fine -- it is solenoid

Bermster

It has 122,000 miles.

The whine started before I got the alternator replaced this last time, and the one I replaced was a part from the dealer.


I forgot to mention another symptom that has been occurring recently. The strength of my air conditioning blower will lessen when I hit the brakes, and then pick back up when I hit the gas. Even after replacing the alternator, it still was doing this. It is particularly noticeable when recirculation is turned off.

pauloil

yep, that is how to see how much voltage cannot get through the cable under load. do the same thing to the starter cable. after a drive, feel the ends of cables by the batt etc. if they are hot, they are bad(too much resistance)

mdbrown

You may want to go through and check your grounds too. One bad ground can cause all of this. The ones under the hood can get corroded and make poor contact or come loose. Alternately, you'll have to perform a current draw test, anything over about 10-20 ma is too much. If you have an excess, begin pulling fuses until it drops down to normal. Once you pull that fuse, that's where your draw is.

yeldogt

What did the dealer say about the noise and the blower speed when you had the system checked out? = this may be all related .........or not.

Using the brakes should not change the blower speed -- but a lower engine RPM can affect the alternator output. I have never worked on the Lexus ACC system so I don't know what controls the vent flaps in the system - if they are vacuum when you are braking the vacuum drops so you could have a vacuum leak that is allowing the vents to change position --- but this is a secondary problem for you. I get a slight change in speed on mine from idle - but it is very small.

Unfortunately, it looks like you are going to have to take it back and have some of these specific questions answered. You need to make sure you are getting proper alternator output at idle with a heavy load on the system and that you have the proper battery output at startup. The system is straight forward -- you should be able to see all the main connections from the battery starter and alternator. Don't delay -- if one of your problems is the starter it will just stop working one day and will be especially problematic with anything but a fully charged battery

Good luck

Bermster

The dealer finally found a problem with a diode in the alternator. Took it back to NTB and they replaced it. Hoping that solves the charging problem. I don't notice the ac blower dimming anymore.

As for the whining/humming noise, I now notice that if I am sitting in park or neutral and rev the engine slowly, just before it hits 1500 rpm the whine starts. Does this give any idea as to what it might be?