Engine Problems after Touchless Carwash
10-19-12, 01:10 PM
#1
Engine Problems after Touchless Carwash
Solution in Post #13
Here is the deal. This car wash has high presssure sprayers from the bottom to clean the undercarriage, which I think is the source of the problem. I slowly crawled into the dock to clean the bottom of the car. Once I was in, I shut the engine off and left the key in the ACC mode. Just a side note, this type of car wash is stationary - it does not drag the car in neutral.
When it was time to drive out, I couldn't get the car started. It was cranking hard, but no start. The car was pushed outside and we tried jumping the battery with a Booster and another Running Car. It didn't help.
I sat there waiting for a tow truck and then gave it a shot after about 20min. I managed to start it by bumping the gas pedal. Cancelled the tow and drove it home 16 miles.
Later that day, I decided to go somewhere. Car started normally and ran fine. I was using the cruise control and noticed a hard jerk at one moment. So I turned off the cruise control and continued manually. After about 2 minutes, the engine stalled. Same scenario - waiting for a tow truck for 10-20 min. It started back up by bumping the gas pedal. I continued to my destination, hung out for a few hours, started the car normally and drove back home with no issues.
Next day(today), started normally, got to the destination. The car stalled while I was idling and waiting for someone to get out of their parking spot. Had to push the car in. Don't know yet if it will restart.
Last major service involved me putting in a new fuel pump. Thoughts?
Here is the deal. This car wash has high presssure sprayers from the bottom to clean the undercarriage, which I think is the source of the problem. I slowly crawled into the dock to clean the bottom of the car. Once I was in, I shut the engine off and left the key in the ACC mode. Just a side note, this type of car wash is stationary - it does not drag the car in neutral.
When it was time to drive out, I couldn't get the car started. It was cranking hard, but no start. The car was pushed outside and we tried jumping the battery with a Booster and another Running Car. It didn't help.
I sat there waiting for a tow truck and then gave it a shot after about 20min. I managed to start it by bumping the gas pedal. Cancelled the tow and drove it home 16 miles.
Later that day, I decided to go somewhere. Car started normally and ran fine. I was using the cruise control and noticed a hard jerk at one moment. So I turned off the cruise control and continued manually. After about 2 minutes, the engine stalled. Same scenario - waiting for a tow truck for 10-20 min. It started back up by bumping the gas pedal. I continued to my destination, hung out for a few hours, started the car normally and drove back home with no issues.
Next day(today), started normally, got to the destination. The car stalled while I was idling and waiting for someone to get out of their parking spot. Had to push the car in. Don't know yet if it will restart.
Last major service involved me putting in a new fuel pump. Thoughts?
Last edited by Hayk; 10-23-12 at 07:10 PM.
10-19-12, 05:18 PM
#5
UPDATE: The car kept cranking, but did not start even after bumping the gas pedal. I had it towed to my house.
I did some tests with my Multimeter. The Voltage at the battery with everything OFF is 12.8 and 12.6 with the high beams ON - if I recall correctly. I then hooked up my meter to the harness where it connects to the fuel pump. The voltage under cranking is 10.99V - I'm not sure if that's enough to turn on the pump. I then took out the battery and hooked it up directly to the pump - the fuel pump is operational.
As far as I know, good voltage at the battery does not always mean that it's still good. I believe you have to check for Amps and load test it. For example, I had a no start condition a week ago, the day after replacing the fuel pump. I thought the battery was good because everything worked and it was cranking hard, but it turned out to be a little too weak to turn on the pump. I was only getting about 10.6V at the harness. We jumped the battery and the car started right up.
It's a Lexus battery purchased in August 2011. The timing belt and all the accessories were replaced in July 2012. I have cleaned my IACV and my MAF sensor in the past. Just to be sure, I took apart the intake, just now, and sprayed down the IACV and the MAF. It also doesn't seem like there is any air obstructions.
If air and fuel are good, there is only spark and compression to check. If the timing belt snapped or skipped a tooth, I think it would behave differently. Although I can't confirm if fuel is good, because I don't know if the pump is running during cranking - I will test for that soon.
Could it be an intermittent fault with the alternator? Maybe my voltage drops randomly, which stops the pump from running. How could I test its operation? Is it doable with a multimeter?
There was a CEL last night, when the engine stalled and I had to pull over. It went away this morning when I was driving. I don't have a scanner on me, but I also don't think the code will give me anything useful.
I did some tests with my Multimeter. The Voltage at the battery with everything OFF is 12.8 and 12.6 with the high beams ON - if I recall correctly. I then hooked up my meter to the harness where it connects to the fuel pump. The voltage under cranking is 10.99V - I'm not sure if that's enough to turn on the pump. I then took out the battery and hooked it up directly to the pump - the fuel pump is operational.
As far as I know, good voltage at the battery does not always mean that it's still good. I believe you have to check for Amps and load test it. For example, I had a no start condition a week ago, the day after replacing the fuel pump. I thought the battery was good because everything worked and it was cranking hard, but it turned out to be a little too weak to turn on the pump. I was only getting about 10.6V at the harness. We jumped the battery and the car started right up.
It's a Lexus battery purchased in August 2011. The timing belt and all the accessories were replaced in July 2012. I have cleaned my IACV and my MAF sensor in the past. Just to be sure, I took apart the intake, just now, and sprayed down the IACV and the MAF. It also doesn't seem like there is any air obstructions.
If air and fuel are good, there is only spark and compression to check. If the timing belt snapped or skipped a tooth, I think it would behave differently. Although I can't confirm if fuel is good, because I don't know if the pump is running during cranking - I will test for that soon.
Could it be an intermittent fault with the alternator? Maybe my voltage drops randomly, which stops the pump from running. How could I test its operation? Is it doable with a multimeter?
There was a CEL last night, when the engine stalled and I had to pull over. It went away this morning when I was driving. I don't have a scanner on me, but I also don't think the code will give me anything useful.
Last edited by Hayk; 10-19-12 at 05:29 PM.
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10-19-12, 08:08 PM
#8
I was thinking that maybe my crank sensor went kaput from the car wash, since it's all the way on the bottom. If the crank sensor was bad, wouldn't it disable the FC signal from the computer? As I understand, the fuel pump needs that FC signal to keep running.
Btw, the car ran for a second after I energized the fuel pump manually, and there was also some Carb Cleaner left over in the intake from my IACV cleaning. So it seems like everything is related to the fuel pump, but the pump itself is good.
10-20-12, 06:30 AM
#9
Crank sensor
The crank sensor is very likely a suspect. The starter signal will initially get the fuel pump running and the crank sensor will keep it running. Also, you will have no spark if there is no crank signal.
10-21-12, 12:35 PM
#12
Try swapping the circuit opening relay and see what happens. The car won't start with a bad crank sensor as that's what it uses to determine spark until the cam sensor takes over after startup but if you have spark I'd check the relay next.
10-23-12, 10:54 AM
#13
I think I figured it out. I believe it's a bad electrical connector at the fuel pump - my fault. When I measured my voltage out of the harness, I stuck my Multimeter probes inside the connector, which loosened the Power and Ground plugs. I bypassed the connector with two paper clips, some wire, and alligator clips - the car started right up.
I'm gonna double check a few times and attempt to fix the connector.
I'm gonna double check a few times and attempt to fix the connector.
