Threxx

I've got a GS400... and I like it. But this purchase will be for my fiance. She likes to have some power under her foot, but she's not just obsessed with power either... she drives a 4-cyl 99 Accord EX right now and all she wants is a little more go than it has and she'll be perfectly fine.

It really just comes down to an issue of ride quality, noise, comfort, reliability, and durability... so the question is which one would be better for the money.

In one school of thought I start thinking of the fact that the ES300, as nice as it is, is based off the Toyota Camry which sells brand new for as low as 16k... meaning the overall chassis of the car is designed to save as much money for the manufacturer as possible (in order to keep the Camry's price down). Whereas the GS300 is more of an excersice is perfection for Lexus... it's a car that they know they will fetch at at least close to 40k bucks for in even the most 'stripped' (no options) format... so they probably haven't cut as many costs.

I realize one has an inline 6 and the other has a V6... one is RWD and one is FWD, and I think both 5-speed automatics... so I'd see the slight advantage in the category going to the GS300 as well... although that may change when the ES330 comes out, which if it's soon enough we would probably be looking at that instead of the ES300.

But then I also start thinking of the absolutely bullet-proof reliability that the Camry and ES300 have had and I realize that this is probably because these cars are much higher production... in other words they've made a whole lot more of them than they have GS3s and GS4s... this probably means they've had more people 'field testing' them and working all of the kinks out.
And I also start thinking of the fact that the ES300/330 is built on a completely redesigned platform for '02... first time I believe it has had a ground-up redesign since 1992. Whereas the GS3/4 is sitting on the same basic chassis since 1998. That's 4 years newer technology going into the ES3.
Cost is also a major factor, and I could get an ES3 with pretty much every option the GS3 has and more for many thousands of dollars less.

So I guess I'm at a stalemate here. I really just want whatever is going to ride the smoothest and be the most trouble-free and maintinance-free car for the dollar. The handling, power, and chassis dynamics are nice as well but they are really afterthoughts.

What do you think?

meZoom!

ahh...mmmm...if this car was for you or me, we'd both probably choose the GS over the 03ES but you said it's for your fiance. Have her test drive em both. If she doesn't like a really boaty and heavier car, I'd say go for the ES. For some reason I am leaning more towards the ES in this case. Her coming from the 4-cyl Accord has something to do w/ it probably. I'll say it this way: The ES will be a "closer" car to the Honda than the GS. whether that's a good thing/bad thing is up to you(her). maybe in ths future, a GS. I'm sure the ES will feel like a significant upgrade to her. again, she should test drive them.

EGainer

I'd say GS, seems to me that a lot of moms drive the GS3. It's got more room and more sportiness than the ES, which seems to be not that big a deal, but the more room is better. Also, i like the styling of the gs as opposed to the es.

steviej

iTrader: (1)

I think ultimately it comes down to which car SHE feels most comfortable in. Nothing will tell that but a test drive. If you explain this to the dealer, they may even let you take a demo for several days to experience both day and night comfort.
Next, it comes down to price, what do you want to spend?

Keep in mind, either way........you are investing in a Lexus. nuff said.

steviej

flipside909

Go for what's higher in the food chain...the Aristo (GS) !

XenonES3

ES. NO question.

This site is dominated by GS owners, so naturally we hear support for the GS.

There's nothing special about a STOCK GS300. Sporty? In comparison to what?

Read any review, the GS3 leaves something to be desired, it lacks the "feel" of an E class or 5 series.

After testing an 02 GS300 with my dad, he laughed his @$$ off (he drives an M5, Porsche 911 Turbo, and 745Li, mind you...so he's a bit biased). I, personally, was shocked at the amount of body roll and displeased with the interior.

I've never driven a GS4, but I am sure its powerful drive train makes up for other gripes.

The ES is cheaper, newer, and WILL TURN HEADS with its bold design. The interior is world class.

THE ES IS THE BEST SELLING LUXURY CAR IN ITS CLASS......there must be reason right?

Threxx

I value your opinion... but I find it surprising that you refer to the GS' interior as "displeasing" yet you refer to the ES' interior as "World Class".

I sat in a '03 ES3 and GS3 back to back... I didn't actually drive them, but I did thoroughly examine the interior, and honestly I felt the GS' interior seemed a little bit more solid. To the eye I thought the ES' interior looked a bit more classy, and the GS a bit more sporty... but I really didn't see anything like you're talking about...???

XenonES3

Well, the GS i drove was nice (non-NAV, no extra wood)......but so ordinary. I liked the speedo/tach gauges, but other than that, I didn't see anything special to it.

The ES on the other hand felt so rich and lavish...very pleasing to the eye...AUDI like..

As far as "solid", I can't judge that, but obviously both interiors are top notch in quality.

I guess it's all personal preference. Some people want a "sporty" or racy looking interior, others prefer a rich, lavish one. I saw a GS with NAV and a full wood dash and really loved it, but without NAV and wood, I prefer the ES hands down.

Sal Collaziano

I've been a fan of the GS for quite awhile now - but the ES is really growing on me.. There's just something about it. Every time I see it, I do think Camry. But then I take a closer look and it's all Lexus.. It's a very classy-looking car. I think the problem is, the GS look is getting kinda old - whereas the ES is very fresh... And, everyone has a GS. I see so many GS's on the road it's unbelievable.. The ES is more rare - at least around here...

Nabeel

That's where you're wrong buddy. Since '92 the ES300 platform has been designed first and foremost for the ES300, and later adopted for use in the Camry. Therefore, the platform is not nearly as compromised as you would think. Ever notice that the Camry is slightly more expensive than its main competitors? I don't have specific iniformation, but I would imagine the reason being that the platform itself is built to a higher standard. In other words, think of the Camry as a watered-down Lexus, rather than the ES300 being a dressed-up Camry.

Let your fiance drive both and see which one she is more comfortable with. I'm leaning towards an ES300 in this situation, mainly because of what meZoom! said earlier. The ES300 is closer in feel to the Accord than a GS300 would be. Either way, Good Luck.

DesertRat

If you want "bulletproof reliability", better get an Acura. Lexus cars are pretty, but the reliability/durability is a myth.

EGainer

DesertRat, how could you say that? Get an acura??? Lexus has been number one in reliability with JD Power and Associates for years! Followed by Infinity, then toyota, then Honda, then acura....

Did anyone else read the march issue of car and driver... this is gonna a lot to type, but here goes.

Car and Driver - March 2003
"The Magnificent Non-Quites"
Here was the ranking, top is the best.
Mercedes Benz E320
BMW 530iA
Audi A6 2.7T Quattro
Lexus GS300
Infiniti M45
Lincoln LS V-8
Jaguar S-type 3.0

"This Lexus has charm-school manners, We fit nicely in the driver's chair, the dials and details are easy to read if a bit small, the controls have a pleasing directness, and the inline six sings a mellifluous purr. Even the BMW can't match its harmony. Nor can it approach the luxurious textures and hues of the GS300's interior appointments. Inside this car you feel a resident of the very best neighborhood.

That said, we must also confront the numbers deficit. In measurements of speed, the GS300 falls a tick behind even the relaxed Jaguar. The BMW with a similarly sized engine (three liters), quickly gets small in the windshield when you line them up side by side.

Lots of qualities count in a car, and the GS300's 8.0-second sprint to 60mph is hardly embarrassing. Still, the ignominy of last-place numbers can't be ignored. The Lexus is a full second below the average to 60 and also the slowest in the quarter. By the slightest fraction, it was also below in average braking and skidpad grip.

It's EPA fuel-economy ratings were exactly average.

Generally, we like the handling a lot. It understeers predictably when pressed. Body motions are controlled, with a pleasing balance between athleticism and ride plushness. Part of the pleasure comes from the astute driver position --- you sit up in this car --- with a nicely located and large rest for your left foot. This is a machine you can work with. The shifter buttons on the spokes allow you to change gears without taking your hands from the rim. The steering is light, yet the turning effort builds appropriately as you corner. You can feel what's going on down at the tire contacts. The GS300 talks to you with tactile subtleties rather than sounds. It never goes numb on you.

As a passenger hauler, it ties the longer and far wider Audi for best comfort in back with two passengers and tops them all for three. As usual, Toyota knows exactly where to carve out a space and add padding.

This Lexus is a suberb choice for those who start a vacation by reeling off 900 miles the first day. No annoyances and no saddle sores here. You don't have tohead for the horizon to enjoy this car, but it might make you want to."

GS3 is nice, if I had the choice between a GS3 and ES3, I would take the GS

Threxx

Source?

I believe the previous gen Camry and ES300 both came out in 92..

Oh, and Desertrat... I've driven the Acura CL/TL Type-S... and while it's peppy, it's WAY too obvious that it's the same car as my girlfriend's Accord. Besides the power delivery and seating, it was very obvious I was driving an Accord. That's not necessarily a bad thing.... but for 33k bucks, I'd at least want to be fooled a little moreso.
The next step up is the RL which is by far and large the most antiquated competitor in the field.

And while Acura has great reliability, and you may have personally had bad experience with Lexus reliability... I think the saying is true that the grass is greaner on the other side. And in this case I think I'd rather just stick with JD Power who has given Lexus the crown year after year.

Nabeel

Until the transmission fails......

Nabeel

Source? Toyota Motor Co. Plus, this info has been posted here on this board many times before. You are correct, the Camry and the first-generation ES300 were both all-new in 1992. The only ES model to adopt a Camry platform was the 1990-1991 ES250, because the Camry was already on the market when it made it's short production run. Since '92, it has been the Camry that has been adopting the ES300 platform.