Why: I sold my Lexus
#16
Rookie
iTrader: (15)
I wasn't around at the time w/a new one, but I thought the main new complaints was for the clunk? I did not know hunting around was part of it, and it seems the TSB and cure would do nothing about that. As i said, I imagine there is more than one thing going on.
It's really odd that some do it and some do not. It seems there's be a consistent mechanical or electro-mechanical design flaw that would reliably show itself. My SUV will hunt around when on cruise in rolling hills - it did it to me last week crossing eastern WA on US route 2 through farm land. If I had a car doing that routinely it would drive me bananas, too.
It's really odd that some do it and some do not. It seems there's be a consistent mechanical or electro-mechanical design flaw that would reliably show itself. My SUV will hunt around when on cruise in rolling hills - it did it to me last week crossing eastern WA on US route 2 through farm land. If I had a car doing that routinely it would drive me bananas, too.
#18
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ky
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Tell me it ain't soo!
I sold my 2005 Lexus ES330 the other day. I had it for almost 4 years.
Here's a summary of my experience with the 4th Gen ES:
The good:
- Reliable, trouble free, cheap maintenance
- Smooth, quiet highway ride
- Outstanding build and material quality, especially the interior which is better than newer ES350's
- Many interchangeable parts with the Camry platform
- Torquey engine (240ft-lb torque @ 3600 RPM) great for highway passing
- Seat comfort (except for thigh support)
- Being a part of the Lexus club
The not good:
- Transmission and throttle lag seriously compromises the driveability. The transmission feels like its in the wrong gear causing the engine to rev up and the car to jerk when you slow down and speed up again in stop and go traffic. The pedal as a dead spot in the beginning making starts very jerky. This was the #1 reason I gave up on my ES and finally got rid of it.
- A lot of body roll in corners, car feels heavy and not maneuverable.
- Poor fuel economy. I averaged 12L/100km (20MPG) in summer and 14L/100km (16MPG) in the winter in mixed driving.
- Unrefined engine: The 3.3L 3MZ-FE is noticeably louder and coarser than the silky smooth 1MZ-FE 3.0L in my Solara and the previous gen ES300.
- Tight back seat compared to the Camry of the same platform. Lexus front seats are fatter to accommodate ventilation. Also wished the front seat traveled back further for taller drivers and I'm only 5'10". The Solara's seat goes back much further relative to the pedals.
- Bad snow traction: no traction control with a powerful V6 and a heavy car make for dicey driving when the weather gets slick in Canada.
- The Lexus brand name brings prestige but also jealousy depending on who your friends are, the neighborhood, and what they appreciate. I mostly got the "oh look a rich guy driving a Lexus" compliment from friends/family.
- We can't have nice things: As much as I tried to keep this car mint, I got bumped in the parking lot and scraped by my brother's bike last year....that really turned my mind around having a nice clean car with all the other careless people on our roads. Its less stressful driving a beater car and not having to worry about it getting dinged in the Wal*mart parking lot.
A note about resale value
Resale value of cars is much lower in Canada than in the US. My car had 229,000 km (142,000 miles) and sold for $5,000 CAD ($3900 USD). A similar car would go for roughly $6000 USD in the states.
The funny thing is I sold it to a guy who was going to import it to California and he drove off with dealer plates With the exchange rate so low, I could see a lot of people making good money off Canadian cars.
Conclusion
Nevertheless, if it wasn't for the transmission being programmed how it was I would have kept the car. I'm a person that really appreciates quality of materials, fit and finish and smoothness and refinement in a car, and a car like the ES fits my driving style.
For now, I'll be driving around my Solara primarily. In the future I look forward to purchasing a Lexus or Toyota again to replace the ES as I will need a decent 4 door car. I'm thinking either a 5th gen ES350, or an RX350, Camry V6 or Highlander. I want something fast, smooth, quiet, but the utility of an SUV would be a nice addition.
Here's a summary of my experience with the 4th Gen ES:
The good:
- Reliable, trouble free, cheap maintenance
- Smooth, quiet highway ride
- Outstanding build and material quality, especially the interior which is better than newer ES350's
- Many interchangeable parts with the Camry platform
- Torquey engine (240ft-lb torque @ 3600 RPM) great for highway passing
- Seat comfort (except for thigh support)
- Being a part of the Lexus club
The not good:
- Transmission and throttle lag seriously compromises the driveability. The transmission feels like its in the wrong gear causing the engine to rev up and the car to jerk when you slow down and speed up again in stop and go traffic. The pedal as a dead spot in the beginning making starts very jerky. This was the #1 reason I gave up on my ES and finally got rid of it.
- A lot of body roll in corners, car feels heavy and not maneuverable.
- Poor fuel economy. I averaged 12L/100km (20MPG) in summer and 14L/100km (16MPG) in the winter in mixed driving.
- Unrefined engine: The 3.3L 3MZ-FE is noticeably louder and coarser than the silky smooth 1MZ-FE 3.0L in my Solara and the previous gen ES300.
- Tight back seat compared to the Camry of the same platform. Lexus front seats are fatter to accommodate ventilation. Also wished the front seat traveled back further for taller drivers and I'm only 5'10". The Solara's seat goes back much further relative to the pedals.
- Bad snow traction: no traction control with a powerful V6 and a heavy car make for dicey driving when the weather gets slick in Canada.
- The Lexus brand name brings prestige but also jealousy depending on who your friends are, the neighborhood, and what they appreciate. I mostly got the "oh look a rich guy driving a Lexus" compliment from friends/family.
- We can't have nice things: As much as I tried to keep this car mint, I got bumped in the parking lot and scraped by my brother's bike last year....that really turned my mind around having a nice clean car with all the other careless people on our roads. Its less stressful driving a beater car and not having to worry about it getting dinged in the Wal*mart parking lot.
A note about resale value
Resale value of cars is much lower in Canada than in the US. My car had 229,000 km (142,000 miles) and sold for $5,000 CAD ($3900 USD). A similar car would go for roughly $6000 USD in the states.
The funny thing is I sold it to a guy who was going to import it to California and he drove off with dealer plates With the exchange rate so low, I could see a lot of people making good money off Canadian cars.
Conclusion
Nevertheless, if it wasn't for the transmission being programmed how it was I would have kept the car. I'm a person that really appreciates quality of materials, fit and finish and smoothness and refinement in a car, and a car like the ES fits my driving style.
For now, I'll be driving around my Solara primarily. In the future I look forward to purchasing a Lexus or Toyota again to replace the ES as I will need a decent 4 door car. I'm thinking either a 5th gen ES350, or an RX350, Camry V6 or Highlander. I want something fast, smooth, quiet, but the utility of an SUV would be a nice addition.
, because this country quit making them way back in the seventies!!!
#19
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
The 1MZ-FE is way more smoother and refined than the 3MZ-FE engine though.
In general, there's three things wrong with the way its programmed:
1) Throttle lag, off the line there's a dead spot in the pedal, causing you to stab the pedal even further causing the car to lurch forward.
2) Transmission lag: slowing down to a rolling stop and then hitting the gas again (as if in stop and go traffic), the transmission seems to have shifted all the way down to gear 1, when it should have been in gear 2 with the car rolling. Reapplying throttle causes the engine to rev up to 2-2.5K RPM and the car to jerk as the car's computer tries to rev match the speed to the gear, and then it shifts into gear 2.
3) Geared too short: The transmission is geared toward fuel economy, and as a result it goes through 4 shifts to get into over drive at 30MPH. This is super annoying if you need to accelerate moderately, as you would expect the car to hold its gear and keep accelerating. Its kinda like the car is running out of breath...oh wait let me shift....then run out of breath, oh wait let me take another breath...etc.
The transmission programming problem is well documented and is also common across all other Toyota V6 vehicles with drive by wire throttle (Camry V6, Solara, Sienna, Highlander, RX330). However it is more pronounced in the ES, as I've driven my dad's 3MZ Sienna and while the throttle response and tranny lag is still evident, its no where nearly as bad as the 4ES.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...on-fix-18.html
How is the transmission lag on your 2GS? On my brother's 2GS its only slightly noticeable, no where near as bad as the ES.
Has anyone here went from a 2002-2006 ES to a 2007-2010 ES350 or 2007-09 RX350, or even a Camry V6 or Highlander? Can you share your experiences and comparison between both vehicles?
#20
Well, I'm glad you had your 4ES. The videos you made with it have been super helpful for me in learning to do some of my own maintenence.
Any particular reason that you are looking at the years of ES and RX that you are? I'd also like to move up to a newer RX for the storage and towing or maybe just another ES to have something in better condition and with newer features than my 4ES. I really haven't liked the interiors on them though until the 2016 models and those are currently more than I can afford.
Any particular reason that you are looking at the years of ES and RX that you are? I'd also like to move up to a newer RX for the storage and towing or maybe just another ES to have something in better condition and with newer features than my 4ES. I really haven't liked the interiors on them though until the 2016 models and those are currently more than I can afford.
#21
Lead Lap
iTrader: (10)
Also my old 3ES. I've driven 4ES' as well, and never liked them, they look like oblong bubbles and drive poorly due to DBW & the trans.
The 07+ vehicles are wicked with the 2gr & u660e... goddamn their quick cars. No lagginess or jerking. I'd imagine the RX in AWD setups will be slower, like the RX vs FWD versions.
My 2012 XLE V6 camry is stupid quick, and you don't expect it... I thought my Subaru is quick.
My buddy who's got an IS-F drove my car a few times and he was thrown aback as to how quick it is and SMOOTH... he's also my mech. so he knows my family cars.
TLDR;
HUGE difference, which explains why they ran these cars for so short before a revamp.
The newer motor variations were, IMO [and sales figures wise] much better.
Last edited by 01LEXPL; 04-24-16 at 10:15 AM.
#22
My mom has an '07 ES350 (bought new), totally different. Much nicer ride. None of the jerky behavior we have (had) to deal with.
#23
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
The dilemma is with all the 2RX's I've seen out there I always came home and asked myself, is there anything more I'm getting besides storage space over the 4ES? I've actually had the RX on my mind for 3 years now at least. The main reason is so I can have something I can fit my bicycle in when I want to go take a ride on a trail or park instead of using bike racks.
I've also considered older Toyota Highlanders (2002-03), mostly as a utility vehicle where I don't have to care too much about its appearance. I wouldn't mind parking it anywhere or throwing bikes inside without worrying if I'll damage the interior. The real bonus is the first gen is drive by CABLE which means no lag at all!
I can also attest that the V6 Camry / ES350 are really fast cars. A few years ago I test drove a 2012 ES350, and boy was that thing fast! I really want something like this, something smooth, elegant, yet crazy fast when you need the passing power.
There have been many times that a lane was ending and I needed to switch lanes over and I solely trusted the passing power of my V6 engine to overtake vehicles beside me. In that sense, not having a V6 could be a safety issue
The only downside I'm reading with the earlier 2GR's (2007-08) is that they eat water-pumps for breakfast, ignition coils for lunch and defecate oil all over the engine if you didn't get the oil line recall done . I've also read of some transmission flare issues in the earlier ES350's as well, hence why I'm asking for comparisons.
Thanks, I'm glad you found my videos helpful. I love making them to share with the community, and I'm learning just as you are along the way. Right now I've got an old Accord I'm working on and have learned a lot already on it. I look forward in sticking around here though, because my Solara and the ES are mechanically very similar so I'm sure there will be more to share.
#24
Lexus Test Driver
The transmission flare issues were on early build 2007s, although most of them got a improved transmission under warranty. I would suggest starting to look at 2008 and up. They did a minor refresh in 2010, if you can afford it; I'd look at those. They improved quite a few things, and the interior looks a little less "cheap".
Btw, i watched that Accord lower control arm video for fun, and absolutely lost it at the end when you were like it's a family sedan, it doesn't need sway bar links. Literally spit some water out of my mouth!!
Btw, i watched that Accord lower control arm video for fun, and absolutely lost it at the end when you were like it's a family sedan, it doesn't need sway bar links. Literally spit some water out of my mouth!!
#25
Driver School Candidate
hello Hypervish! Is this quote about your RX300? If it's so I'm about to cry I agree on the bad fuel economy with the thread starter but maybe there is something I can do about it?
#26
Sorry to hear you let the car go Speedkar but I understand your reasoning. I too hated the drive by wire system in the 4th Gen ES so I stuck with the 3rd gen. I do think the RX is a good move if you can find one you like, I would love to buy a 3rd gen RX when they come down in price. Maybe in a year or so from now.
Either case, please continue to make your videos on YouTube as I found them very helpful.
Either case, please continue to make your videos on YouTube as I found them very helpful.
#28
Lexus Fanatic
The ES300 was a great car, I too had the throttle lag but learned to adapt to it. My Dad's 98 LS400 had it too, so I was already sort of used to it. Great interior in that car, you don't find that sort of material quality in entry level cars anymore.
As for comparing it to the 5ES ES350, the 350 is better in every way other than interior material quality. When the 350 came out in 2007 I didn't care for how stark it was, especially inside without the 4ES's wood trim across the dash, etc. The 2010 refresh addressed a lot of that, gained some much needed exterior chrome trim and inside more wood and leather trim which spiced it up a lot. BUT, at its core the material quality is still not as nice as what was in the 4ES, and that material quality in the current 6ES is not as good as what was in that 5ES.
I found the 5ES more enjoyable to drive, ride is about the same while the 5ES handles a little better, seems a little tighter and more nimble. No throttle lag, transmission programming is much better. Additional power is great. Styling wise I think the 5ES is much more attractive especially post the 2010 refresh.The 5ES has a lot more luxury goodies, power tilt and telescoping steering wheel, tilt down mirrors, keyless entry and start. The manual wheel and such always felt downmarket to me in the ES.
Hope that helps!
#29
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
The transmission flare issues were on early build 2007s, although most of them got a improved transmission under warranty. I would suggest starting to look at 2008 and up. They did a minor refresh in 2010, if you can afford it; I'd look at those. They improved quite a few things, and the interior looks a little less "cheap".
Sorry to hear you let the car go Speedkar but I understand your reasoning. I too hated the drive by wire system in the 4th Gen ES so I stuck with the 3rd gen. I do think the RX is a good move if you can find one you like, I would love to buy a 3rd gen RX when they come down in price. Maybe in a year or so from now.
Either case, please continue to make your videos on YouTube as I found them very helpful.
Either case, please continue to make your videos on YouTube as I found them very helpful.
I feel bad for letting such a nice car go, but as a driver, that throttle was just annoying. I could actually see myself driving a 3ES in the future if I didn't have my Solara. I'd want one with a black interior though, and we know that the 97-98's had more durable tranny's than the 99-01's.
The GS is not a bad car either, but I'm kinda scared about the complexity of repairs and availability of parts as I go across to a platform that doesn't share parts with most Toyota's. For example, my brother had to go to the dealership to replace a stripped transmission pan bolt on his 2GS, because it wasn't commonly stocked (other Toyotas use the Hex bolt). There's tons of Camry/ES/Solara/Avalon in the junkyard I can ****** parts from but nothing for IS/LS/GS.
The 2010 refresh addressed a lot of that, gained some much needed exterior chrome trim and inside more wood and leather trim which spiced it up a lot. BUT, at its core the material quality is still not as nice as what was in the 4ES, and that material quality in the current 6ES is not as good as what was in that 5ES.
I found the 5ES more enjoyable to drive, ride is about the same while the 5ES handles a little better, seems a little tighter and more nimble. No throttle lag, transmission programming is much better. Additional power is great. Styling wise I think the 5ES is much more attractive especially post the 2010 refresh.
I found the 5ES more enjoyable to drive, ride is about the same while the 5ES handles a little better, seems a little tighter and more nimble. No throttle lag, transmission programming is much better. Additional power is great. Styling wise I think the 5ES is much more attractive especially post the 2010 refresh.
Good to know that the throttle lag isn't there in the 5ES. Any issues during stop and go traffic with gear hunting? I too love the styling of 2010+ more, and I feel like I'd regret getting 07-09, having had face-lifted 05.
Last edited by speedkar9; 04-25-16 at 07:56 PM.
#30
Speedkar how do you feel about a LS 400? You are right, LS 430's are still pricey. From what I read, 430 is just updated with lots more features inside. I'm not sure which is better on gas, more comfortable, less prone to issues, etc though.
Personally, I'm not a fan of all the crap new cars offer. Most of it useless to me! Every time I get in a new car, I feel like an old man looking at a smart phone haha.
Personally, I'm not a fan of all the crap new cars offer. Most of it useless to me! Every time I get in a new car, I feel like an old man looking at a smart phone haha.