acarapella

OK, I want to get to the bottom of this once and for all. Most of the people with an ES Know that it’s “more than just a Camry“ but yet so many people say that all our vehicle is is a fancy Camry.
I am aware that, despite their vast mechanical similarities, a Camry is a Camry and a 2006 and older ES is a Toyota Windom. Except the first generation, and obviously 2007 and newer is it’s own thing. 2013 more mechanically similar to Avalon, but my point is, these aren’t just badge engineered cars
I haven’t driven my 2002 ES 300 in almost a month, and in that month, I have put over 2000 miles on two Camry: a 2003 and a 2006, both in top mechanical condition, both with similar mileage to my car, and all three vehicles, to my knowledge Are all original. The ride quality of my Lexus is absolutely night and day to the Camry, it is dramatically smoother, dramatically quieter, and floats like a cloud over the road irregularities. It is smoother in so many ways, and that says a lot, as the this generation Camry was a very nice car.How is it possible, being almost mechanically identical, that is so much nicer of a car? The only thing I could think of is the vast amount of sound deadening, but it Has to be more than that… Can anybody explain?

LeX2K

The drivetrain is the same but the ES has thicker carpet, thicker/more insulation and the shock valving is tuned to be softer. I'm sure there are other small improvements on the ES that add up.

Arsenii

Hello,

ES always had more sound-deadening material, which gives it its silence. It is also a bit bigger and heavier than a standard Camry (1361kg for the XV20 Camry compared to 1529kg for the XV20 ES300), which gives it its smooth ride. But that is not it: if the parts are interchangeable, it doesn't mean that they are the same - if you will look closely, you will see that Lexus ES300 and Toyota Camry actually have different Part Numbers for quite a lot of suspension parts, like shock absorbers, springs, etc. To my knowledge, even engine, transmission and ECU are set differently from that of a standard Camry. That is what gives Lexus its superior ride quality, and that is why Lexus ES300 is not the same as Toyota Camry.

P.S. I thought the same before I first rode in the ES - what could be so different that people are willing to spend almost twice the price for it? I've had that question up until the moment when I drove one, it was just night and day compared to the Camry. Considering that those two cost around the same now, without a shade of doubt I would recommend an ES.
With that said, don't get me wrong, I really love Toyota Camry, especially their Station Wagon lineup. Still fancying the moment to find a V20 Camry Station Wagon with All-Trac system, probably not in this life though.. The difference is that for me, Camry is more of a project car than a daily-driver..

Hope this helps and best of luck!

acarapella

Thanks guys! So that uncovers something scary. The aftermarket parts are the same, Camry to ES. Best to get Lexus genuine parts then. I was going to sell my ES and get a Prius since I own a small dealership (please pray I still do after covid19) and always have something “nice” to drive and my personal car only needs to be versatile and reliable. But no matter how “nice” my inventory is, it’s not a 4ES. I may actually try to preserve this car and stop driving it in our salty winters.

off topic, but Shame every ES since had gotten stiffer.


Camry wagons are sweet. Up to 4th gen in other markets. Shame they don’t make one out of the current Camry and sell it here… Somebody whose opinion I value quite a bit about cars once said that sedans are way less effective in terms of practicality than wagons… Coupes and convertibles are the only cars, and then station wagons are for the practical… sedan is just a wagon without the cargo area. I agree. I would buy my 4ES in a wagon in a heartbeat

funcrusher

From my experience, 99% of people who say Lexus cars are just Toyota’s with a Lexus emblem have never even sat in a Lexus. It’s a passive aggressive form of hating.

acarapella

That’s a solid diagnosis. Like saying a Cadillac is just a chevy

LeX2K

That happened.

Arsenii

Basically as for any other Lexus part - OEM is always better.. But don't get discouraged, the fun part is that OEM Lexus struts are just ~$20 more than aftermarket ones ($146.52 for Lexus, and $130.79 for Moog), which is a pretty good bargain.

No idea about the stiffness of the new ES, but uglier indeed.. Recently visited a Lexus dealer and realized that I would never trade my 2000 Lexus ES300 for a new one. The interior feels like in the cockpit of some kind, and the exterior has more grille than .. basically anything else..

Speaking of wagon - maybe you should consider something like a Lexus IS300 SportCross? That is one beautiful car - Straight 6 engine, Rear, or even All Wheel Drive, Station Wagon.. It also looks great. Relatively hard to find though, I found only one on sale, for some ridiculous amount..



Hope this helps and best of luck!

FromFL

I'm going to vote just a Camry (sorry). I have an '04 ES 330 and the ride is not exceptionally plush by any stretch, it has no heated seats, no pulse-wiper function option, no steering wheel controls for the radio---inexcusable for luxury car.

funcrusher

Heated seats and steering wheel controls were both options on es330’s.

acarapella

The Cadillac Cimeron! I heard that GM CEO has a phone of one in his office with some caption about learning from mistakes lol

hey this wasn’t a place to vote it was to discus fact - quite different though I see the difference deteriorating every day (pardon the politics). No offense. There are extensive differences perceived by the vast majority and now explained by the highly informed few. Heated seats have been optional until just a few years ago (really) steering wheel buttons came with the 05 face lift. Very few cars had them in 02 when your 04
was first produced. Mercedes, at that time, had models without CD players still.



not a fan of the is to drive as much to marvel at. Had one and felt I belonged in an ES. I have a lot of respect for the car though. An ES in Wagon would be sweet


i should further explain considering ditching my ES for a Prius. I meant a beater Prius needing a battery or something. Just had one for $1200 cause all the door locks worked intermittently. Loved that car as a mule to get around. It replaced my ES in reliability and mechanical sophistication, but nothing else (other than drivetrain silence lol) but my thought was gunnel the other $3500 into my hobby. We are now doing phase 2 of my Chevy.

here I am Saturday dropping out the front suspension, preparing to fabricate the installation of a 1986 Jaguar XJS front crossmember
figured the money from my ES would cover a donor vehicle with a 4.8 or 5.3 v8 and 4l60e automatic and a polly fuel tank with built in EFI pump. Now I think I’ll suffer with the crappy v8 and 3 speed for a while longer to keep my ES for the rare occasions I drive my own car.

the corolla in the background is one of my “projects” as well

24inchdubz

I have had the same gen camry and es300. The motor is definitely a tad more quicker in the lexus and the handling is better too. of course insulation and creature comforts.

acarapella

For sure - what you're feeling is the Lexus uses the u150e 5 speed auto and the camry uses the u140e 4 speed auto.

Collegeman

I used to have a 99 4 cyl Camry for about 3 years until the tranny went bad. After that I bought an 02 ES300 (last August) and I can definitely say it is a night and day difference, excusing the 3 year gap.

June1978

A lexus is just a camry with a PHD