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Would you recommend a 2000-2006 ES 300 as a first car?
Being on a tight budget my main concerns are reliability, as I can't afford replacement parts and visits to the shop on a regular basis. What are the main problems with this car? Are they easy fixes or do they require a lot of work and money? Should I avoid this car if I'm looking for something cheap and relaible? Any tips and pointers will be greatly appreciated
This would be a great first car actually, it has quite a bit more options than Camry, but at the same time it is in similar price range, and shares a lot of parts with one, so repair-wise, it shouldn't be too bad. Other than that, there is more than plenty of information on how to do basic maintenance and common repairs at home, which is generally not that difficult to do, even if you are new to the car repair. The only main concern would be the timing belt, which needs to be replaced every 80,000 miles. If you are tight on budget, I would probably suggest to go with 3rd-gen ES300 (1997-2001), since there are more of them at the junkyard if you will need any parts, and they are generally cheaper than 4th-gen. Here you can find more information on what to stay on a lookout for.
Thanks for the advice going to check out a 2000 and 2004 model within the next week, both below 100k. Fingers crossed!
Under 100K? I have my doubts that you can go wrong with any of them actually, those are some of the best years you can get, at least in my not-so-humble opinion.. Just be sure to pay attention to the stuff described in the post above, and use common sense, those cars are durable, but it doesn't mean they are immortal. Also, I am not sure about the rust around the place where you live, but be sure to check that as well, the car is worth repairing only if the body is still sound..
The 05 ES330 I got was for my son as his first car. Had some issues with it but all of that was due to the maintenance that the previous owner did, rather, the shop that did it.
Here in Houston, I can see at least 10 ES300/330s every day when I'm out driving. They are great cars, easy to work on and cheap to own.
Great first car just make sure nothing major is broken or needs repair. If it’s your first car I would recommend you take somebody who know a lot about cars and has years of experience to help you out. It’s hard to tell what’s normal and what’s expensive to fix when you haven’t experienced it before.
1. I would be checking for odd noises from the engine.
2. Strange shift behavior or a whine from the transmission
3. Suspension clunks, pitch and roll.
4. oil and other fluid leaks
5. rust on the body and chassis
6. exhaust leaks
7. scan the computer for codes and whether the system was cleared recently.
As far as reliability goes, these cars are pretty darn reliable.
Very little goes wrong and they are nice little rides.
Having said that....the perfect low-cost car is one that breaks down rarely...and is fairly easy to maintain.
Having worked on different brands and models of cars, if you are going to do your own work....(and I highly recommend that people do this and learn their cars), these are the biggest PIA cars to work on that I have ever seen.
I have heard it said that these cars were designed on computers and BMW's were designed by mechanics.
While I can't say if it is true, it is certainly believable. Having owned a couple of E36's (A certain generation of body style for BMW), most things are reasonably easy to get to and to work on.
And while it is not quite the same for Ford, they are not terribly bad to work on either.
But these things.......what sadistic @$*&^ designed these things?
It should not take removing Half the freaking things under the hood to swap a thermostat.
It should not require a team of mechanics and a contortionist to get to all of the spark plugs. (Looking at you RX350)
A water pump should not require removing half the bay, the front tire, and possibly a deal with the devil.
Don't even get me started on what it takes to remove the passenger front headlight housing. Near as I can tell, it requires dumping the windshield washer fluid tank and possibly still having real issues getting around the frame bar in that corner.
These are not only more difficult...but at the cartoon level of more difficult to work on.
Having said all of that, would I still recommend it? Yes. Your first request was reliable and these are that. And having said what I did, I will be driving my ES330 until the wheels fall off.
But it does not mean that I will not groan more and use a much more colorful language when working on it.
And if I ever do meet a member of the design team, they are getting B$%^ Slapped.....
As far as reliability goes, these cars are pretty darn reliable.
Very little goes wrong and they are nice little rides.
Having said that....the perfect low-cost car is one that breaks down rarely...and is fairly easy to maintain.
Having worked on different brands and models of cars, if you are going to do your own work....(and I highly recommend that people do this and learn their cars), these are the biggest PIA cars to work on that I have ever seen.
I have heard it said that these cars were designed on computers and BMW's were designed by mechanics.
While I can't say if it is true, it is certainly believable. Having owned a couple of E36's (A certain generation of body style for BMW), most things are reasonably easy to get to and to work on.
And while it is not quite the same for Ford, they are not terribly bad to work on either.
But these things.......what sadistic @$*&^ designed these things?
It should not take removing Half the freaking things under the hood to swap a thermostat.
It should not require a team of mechanics and a contortionist to get to all of the spark plugs. (Looking at you RX350)
A water pump should not require removing half the bay, the front tire, and possibly a deal with the devil.
Don't even get me started on what it takes to remove the passenger front headlight housing. Near as I can tell, it requires dumping the windshield washer fluid tank and possibly still having real issues getting around the frame bar in that corner.
These are not only more difficult...but at the cartoon level of more difficult to work on.
Having said all of that, would I still recommend it? Yes. Your first request was reliable and these are that. And having said what I did, I will be driving my ES330 until the wheels fall off.
But it does not mean that I will not groan more and use a much more colorful language when working on it.
And if I ever do meet a member of the design team, they are getting B$%^ Slapped.....
I gotta agree with you on the Lexus vs BMW. Recently bought an e92 3 series as a side project and was surprised how straight forward most of the access is. The electrical connectors don’t immediately shatter into bits of plastic and are actually easy to remove. The spark plugs are all neatly in a row. The cabin filter is not tucked away under the gas pedal (97-01 ES300 I’m looking at you!). They even repurpose the tow hook for the engine to connect with the support brace for removing the subframe.
Having said that, reliability is on another level with Lexus. Ignition coils last the life of the vehicle and rarely fail. The control arm bushings last for 200k+ miles. Oil pans rarely leak and are very easy to reseal without doing major surgery. Water pumps and thermostats cost a fraction of what BMW designed. Cooling hoses are simple and durable without any fragile and overly complicated connections.
And like you said, I’ll take a difficult to work on Lexus any day over a fragile but easy to fix BMW.
In a reply to oceanlvr, a Lexus is not a PIA compared to a firsts gen Mazda 6 with the 3.0. The most inexpensive car to own is a mid 90’s Camry. 300k with minimal maintenance.
40 years of driving and wrenching on my own cars , Jaguar is the most fun to drive in a sadistic kind of way. Rapes your wallet and gives you pleasure.
Second up was my 04 Mazda 6 wagon. Fun to drive but a maintenance ***** do to the interface between the Ford motor and the Mazda body.
In a reply to oceanlvr, a Lexus is not a PIA compared to a firsts gen Mazda 6 with the 3.0. The most inexpensive car to own is a mid 90’s Camry. 300k with minimal maintenance.
40 years of driving and wrenching on my own cars , Jaguar is the most fun to drive in a sadistic kind of way. Rapes your wallet and gives you pleasure.
Second up was my 04 Mazda 6 wagon. Fun to drive but a maintenance ***** do to the interface between the Ford motor and the Mazda body.
I appreciate the feedback. Never worked on a Mazda. But I have heard stories about the radial engines. My experience runs from Honda to Toyota, Lexus, BMW, Ford and Chevy. Is there possibly a cheaper car to drive overall? Sure. But I was sticking to those that I know.
Try to find one in good condition
that's what I did. My best tip is if it is not broke don't start replacing parts. My 2002 ES300 A check light turned out to be a new gas cap fix. Another a loose vacuum hose. The spiking temp. Just a very little low on coolant. I hear the complaints, my simple advice is try to do simple stuff.... if you don't like doing the work take it to a trusted mechanic if you don't have one find one. Just buy the car if it runs and feels lije smooth rider don't buy if it is running rough.
I bought it on January 2016, and it has been our family's only vehicle. I was the 3rd owner. We live in upstate new york, where RUST eats up cars really badly. In order to cut the costs I started to service the car myself a lot (I did not even know how to change a tire before, now I can do a full brake job and replace most parts under the hood). As pointed out in earlier comments, some parts are really hard to access and replace, though. In my first experience, a rusty screw was broken. It was a nasty fix. For your reference, I am attaching my service history. If there is no labor cost, it means self-service.
The catalytic converter DID NOT give me a check engine light or something, but it was really annoying me for the last 2 years (rattling noise on cold start) so I replaced it. There are also various other minor stuff including a visit to local junkyard for broken gas door and missing Lexus logo on the wheel. (Junkyards are the best)
Keep in mind that you will need a backup when it needs a maintenance. I am thankful to my friends (also neighbors) who let me drive their cars on such occasions. Sometimes you have to leave the car in garage/mechanic 4+ days. I always went to local mechanic, chain brands will cost you a fortune. If you can spend a little more, I don't recommend you to service yourself other than oil change.
I am planning to hold on to this vehicle to commute, but I will buy/lease a minivan/SUV as our primary vehicle.
03-12-21, 11:16 AM
Would you recommend a 2000-2006 ES 300 as a first car?
