LeX2K

Preamble: At one time car audio products did tend to focus on audio quality especially the digital to analog conversion stage. This goes back to the early 90's Alpine was well known to produce excellent, color free transparent audio stages. Now we have a choice of OEM systems, which vary greatly in quality and are closely tied to the rest of the car. For that reason aftermarket head units are becoming more rare and they focus on software/features not audio quality. The pre-amp stage is mostly an afterthought, quite frankly the audio quality is awful. You may not realize this since without a reference point, but if you hear a head unit with a proper pre-amp/DAC stage you'll never be able to go back to generic, muddy sound. Things get more murky when we're talking about streaming audio from a mobile device I've noticed on some head units audio from my phone sounds better than playing USB or CD's. But it does not come close to a head unit with 24 bit DACs such as the Texas Instrument Burr-Brown chips.

What started all this for me is I have a circa 2000 Toyota/Fujitsu stereo that I recently decided to replace. I have several aftermarket head units from Kenwood, Pioneer and JVC. None of them sounded even close to the factory system. It was like putting cotton in your ears, bass was half gone mids were confused overall the sound was terrible. This got me thinking, the pre-amp/DAC stage in this particular Toyota stereo must be excellent. I tried a couple of other Toyota head units I have, didn't sound nearly as good. That put me on a quest to find aftermarket decks with audiophile grade sound this is what I came up with.

Almost all of these have been discontinued, but if you care about sound quality you'll look for them. This list may not be 100% accurate do your own research, these should all have the Burr-Brown 24 bit DACs unless otherwise stated.

Alpine UTE-73BT
Unknown DAC only states 24 bit


Alpine CDA-117





Kenwood Excelon KDC-X990
24 bit Wolfson DACs


Pioneer DEH-P860MP




Alpine INA-W910BT




JVC KD-BT1




Alpine CDA-9887




Alpine iDA-X200




JVC KD-A95BT


JVC KD-R926BT




JVC KD-R810





JVC KW-HDR720 (specs say 24 bit DACs does not specify brand)






Pioneer PRS-80


JVC KW-XR810





JVC KW-R900BT




Dynavin N7-6205 PRO

Alpine-CDE-W265BT


Kenwood Excelon KDC-X891



To my knowledge the Dynavin N7-6205 PRO is the only head unit in production that uses the Burr-Brown DACs. Pioneer PRS-80 also does but this is either out of production or in pseudo production meaning Pioneer makes a few when there is demand. Good news about the Dynavin is this is a modern unit with Apple Carplay and Android audio. Yes it has the Burr-Brown 24 bit DACs in fact all their head units do they also make OEM replacements for some new models.

I currently have the JVC KW-R900BT that I found on Ebay sound quality is outstanding. I am not using the built in amplifier (you should always have an external amp). I cannot stress enough how much of a different the Burr-Brown DACs make honestly the only way to know is hear it for yourself. This is the same DAC that has been used in high end home equipment for many years.

Recently found a JVC KW-XR810 on Ebay don't have it yet will test and report when I do. So for anyone looking to upgrade their factory system I highly recommend you find one of the above units used or go with the Dynavin. I realize some people don't care or notice the difference in sound quality they just want loud along with bumping bass. But if you covet clean, transparent sound seek out a unit with the Burr-Brown hardware. Once you hear a system with this hardware you'll never go back.

Kira X

iTrader: (24)

I remember seeing some of these headunits when I was in high school in the late 2000’s. Unfortunately I couldn’t afford any of them back then, but I did own a JVC single din just like in one of your pictures. It sounded really good and was a dramatic improvement over stock.

Were any of the newer Alpine headunits as good as these? I bought a brand new CDE-123 nine years ago and haven’t installed it yet. It resembles the CDA-117 and 9887. I got it on clearance in late 2012 at a local shop since they were impossible to find online.

I’ve run into a few of these headunits at the junkyard over the past year. Most were still in decent shape too. I’ll start keeping an eye out for these when I’m looking used headunits.

Edit: It looks like it doesn’t have it. I’ll be on the lookout for one of the older Alpines. I thought they were the coolest looking headunits back then.

LeX2K

Specs say "1-bit DAC" not much else. I want to be clear that the Burr-Brown DAC is not the end all be all in fact there are superior chips/solutions out there but they tend to show up in high end home audio gear. But, the Burr-Brown compared to the generic DACs is vastly superior. This chip has been around a long time I believe this is the exact one used, if not a close version of it.
https://www.ti.com/product/PCM1798

The frustrating thing is even before technology like a 24bit DAC was around good head units still had nice clean sound. Google Alpine 7909 this is an ancient CD player but sounds excellent even using the built in amp. They sell for a small fortune on Ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124724392153



And some of the best, very hard to find. Finding a good head unit is worth the effort I did some driving today the sound quality difference is unbelievable no listener fatigue. I have some Morel speakers on the way only running the stock ones now so my system is about to get much better.

Kira X

iTrader: (24)

I was a little bummed out to find out my Alpine didn’t have the Burr-Brown DAC, but it also wasn’t the most expensive Alpine or anything. Those old school Alpines really do go for a ton. I looked up some vintage Alpine headunits a year ago and couldn’t believe how expensive they were.

It’s crazy how pricey some of these headunits still are. I found a few Pioneer Premiers on Craigslist/Facebook. I’ll have to hit some pawn shops this weekend and look around.

That’s good to hear that it made a huge difference even on stock speakers. Are you going to power the new speakers with an amp or through the headunit?

LeX2K

Here's my system specs, I'll post some pics when the system is done. This is not in my ES300 that's in cue at some point I'll be replacing the entire stock system.
Hertz HCP1DK mono amp class D
Hertz HCP4 4-channel amp class AB
JVC KW-R900BT head unit
Morel Tempo Ultra Integra 502 5-1/4" 2-way speakers (rear)
Hertz DCX 87.3 Dieci Series 3-1/2" (front)
Subwoofer TBD

Hertz HCP1DK was dead right out of the box turned on but no sound, bought it local so they gave me a replacement, good service. There is a review on Amazon for this amp that says they also got a dead amp. The guy at Visions (visions.ca) didn't believe me that the amp was bad.

Never tried Morel speakers before they are a bit hard to find. Front speakers I am limited to 3.5" that greatly narrows choice. Subwoofer not sure what I'm going to do here I may go with a custom enclosure in the spare tire well, or something else. These Hertz amplifiers are great value and sound excellent, the mono amp kicks hard I tested it with a factory Lexus sub it could easily blow the sub. Hertz amps are cheaper in Canada than the U.S. which is unusual. A quirk in the KW-R900BT default sub out setting is 0 it goes to 8, 0 means no sound. Seems odd since there is also an option to disable the sub output. Set it to 1 and it works normally. The KW-R900BT has time alignment this is a great feature, measure the distance from the speakers to about your head location and set that number into the KW-R900BT. It does not have auto time alignment like the Pioneer PRS-80 (comes with a microphone).

Anyone here have Focal speakers?

A word on speaker material, I am not a fan of polypropylene cones this material is very durable but don't like the tonality. I much prefer paper, carbon fibre glass fiber etc.

edit - I listed to these speakers immediately wanted them. That price tho

funcrusher

I have a Hertz component system. They’re good but my 1,200 watts of bass is slightly to much. I’ll probably upgrade the speakers amp and put some rear speakers in (disabled the blown stocks)

LeX2K

Which ones exactly?

I'm running this for my sub temporarily have to say this Lexus speaker (LS400 I think) has a warm sweet sound to it. Maybe the ancient Bang & Olufsen box is doing it either way I love the organic sound.

funcrusher

I have this set being pushed by a JL Audio vxi400 amp

LeX2K

That's a beautiful amp it has digital input but what are you supposed to feed it with?

So I scored another KW-R900BT locally it had basically the same problem as the first one. For that reason not sure I can recommend buying one seems like there is flaw in the circuit board it cracks, because you're always pressing the dial/button?


Repaired









JVC KW-HDR720 also showed up I did some testing it has some audio differences. The pre-out is not 5 volts probably 4 volts so in theory a bit less dynamic range. Sub output is also not as high at default setting. With some tweaking I was able to get it to sound essentially the same as the KW-R900BT, most definitely can hear the Burr-Brown goodness. KW-HDR720 has no time alignment feature. Overall still a great unit, some reviews said the display is not that legible didn't find that at all it's excellent.

LeX2K

Small update, the head unit I repaired is still working great thankfully. I've finished the system except for the subwoofer still running the temporary box. A Camry Wagon is not a great environment for sound the car has so much glass and the cabin is one big open box. Still, it sounds damn good I'm pleased with it. Going to the Pioneer setup in my Lexus is not a massive step down but I certainly hear a drop in fidelity. To the credit of Lexus they did an excellent job of blending the sub with the rest of the speakers there is no noticeable roll off or dead spot in the frequency range.

When I get around to updating the system in my ES300 I'd like to try Focal speakers but they are difficult to find in Canada. Same with Morel actually. Speaking of, they make a great speaker the 5.25" ones I have in the rear are sweet. Was a major pain though since the stock ported boxes take a 4" so I modified some spares had to extend the depth etc.

LeX2K

Another update, have the amps wired in and mounted.




I've gone through 4 sets of front speakers. The factory ones (30 years old, Fujitsu), Hertz, Kicker and now Skar Audio.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202918023604

Ranked in order of like
1. Skar
2. Factory
3. Kicker
4. Hertz

Hertz greatly disappoints here, I know a 3.5" speaker is not common and has some serious compromises but the Hertz simply is not a good sounding speaker. It's somewhat harsh, muddled just not a pleasant listen. The factory speakers sound way better than you'd expect very neutral and good bass response. The upper end rolls off since it is a single cone no built in tweeter. But still, this is quality speaker and still works great after 30+ years. The Kicker is meh, not much else to say.

Skar Audio is a massive surprise this is a great speaker. I also bought the 6.5" for another car more on that later. The 3.5" has a stamped steel basket no doubt to save cost, but has a soft dome tweeter and a fiberglass cone not something you generally see on an inexpensive speaker. Right out of the box they sound nice and are warming up and becoming smoother as they break in. Very happy with them.

The 6.5" has way more sensitivity than the specs say (89db) these play loud and are easy to drive. The fiberglass cone means it can be thinner than poly or paper which makes it better in the low end. Has the same tweeter as the 3.5". Have not listened to them much yet they have a stronger character versus the Hertz MPX165.3 I was running previously, which are quite soft and require a higher end amp to drive.

My take-away is if you want speakers that are way better than most (if not all ) at a low end price point then Skar Audio's are a great choice. Has anyone tried their amplifiers?

LeX2K

Important update: Turns out the Alipine iLX-407 has 24 bit DACs, I've checked this unit and other Alpine decks at sites like Crutchfield the specs don't say anything about the DACs so I assumed the worst. Unfortunately no physical volume **** which I really like, but this thing has promise. It's not cheap but has a good amount of features I might pick one up after Christmas.

It has 6-channel time alignment and supports steering wheel controls among other tricks.

LeX2K

Two years and change later. There are now several units that provide detailed specs including pre out voltage and DAC info. Here are the ones I've tried

JVC KW-V960BW
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_105KWV...KW-V960BW.html
This is a nice unit, I didn't buy it borrowed it from a friend before it was installed. 24-bit DAC brand unknown. It's possible DACs have become generic in nature a commodity item. Has time alignment. Sound quality is probably the best I've heard from a modern unit. It is loaded with features and as a result expensive.

Pioneer FH-S722BS
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_130FS7...S.html?tp=5684
Lower end unit, functionally it's fine but sound quality is not good. Very heavy on the bass thin everywhere else. I did my best to tune out the shortcomings via equalizer etc. I never succeeded. 24 bit DAC according to Pioneer, has time alignment.

JVC W-R950BTS
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_105KWR...S.html?tp=5684
This is the nicest non-touch screen unit I've tried. It sounds very good, 24 bit DAC and time alignment. Really good bass and overall clean output. Display looks very nice but the volume **** is cheap feeling and touchy. Still, if you want an inexpensive unit this would be my pick.

Now here's the problem. The above units don't have the same sparkle and overall clean, transparent sound of the JVC KW-R900BT which features Burr/Brown DACs. I wanted to like the modern units but sound quality is king. It's sad that a 12 year piece of hardware towers above the new when it comes to sound quality. Very disappointing. I'm streaming wireless via bluetooth from my phone to the KW-R900BT it sounds downright excellent. Apparently the head unit cooperates with Android to bitstream to the JVC which allows it to unitize the build in DACs. It works so well that I don't bother with streaming from a USB stick. For some material I can hear a slight uptick, other stuff I can't tell. Remember, this is a 12 year old head unit proving superior sound. What happened to progress.

I'm getting tired of buying and trying head units only to return to the KW-R900BT. Next step maybe I'll try the Joying head unit have no idea how it will sound, but it does have optical out which hints they are at least trying to cater to audiophiles.

For comparison I listened to some of my favourite material in the Lexus, this finally felt like a step down. Which is a good thing I've spent a fair bit of time trying out do the overall sound coming from the Pioneer which is better than people give it credit for. On a side note I've been testing out 3.5" speakers this is my favourite so far

The design is clever it makes the speaker cone as large as possible. Damn good speaker I'm very happy with it.


note: all the units I've tested (and/or will consider) have 4 or 5 volt pre outputs anything less limits dynamic range and overall sound quality.

edit - want to make it clear I didn't use the built in amplifier on any these units. All tested on a system with either Hertz or Morel 4 channel class A/B, and a Hertz mono for the subwoofer.

98ej8

Thanks for updating the thread, otherwise I probably would not have found it. This is exactly what I need, I want a nice headunit with good sound quality, I don't need a lot of bass. And with all the diff stuff you've tried out, eliminates the need for experimenting on my end lol

LeX2K

Just installed these

I'll wait until they are broken in before I give a rating. First impression is they are slightly sharp sounding (common for a new speaker) and are very efficient they are louder than the Hertz speakers they replaced. There is a version with a crossover
They are exactly 6.5" unlike many speakers that are really 6.75" or something bigger than you are expecting.

I think the above are discontinued not sure.