maxV

Up until 2001, the ES had a little bit of a sport edge in styling (even though it is primarily a luxury-oriented car), but it's all gone now.
Lexus doesn't have anything I'm willing to buy now. The IS300 is too racy and cramped and seems too much like a Toyota. The GS330 is too expensive. The ES330 is bland at best in exterior styling. The interior is generally nice, but I think the wood around the instrument panel is a bit overdone. I can live with the wooden dashboard, but not the exterior styling.
Anyone have any idea how much Lexus can improve the looks of the ES330 with the styling update next year that is likely to be little more than new head and tail lights?
The rear tail lights are a little plain and boring and kind of cheap, but the front head lights are HOMELY.
Maybe they will revise the hood and bumpers too, but maybe really improved headlights alone can make big improvements in the car's appearance.

Another possibility will be if Lexus makes the new IS replacement much more luxurious inside than the current model without much change in price.
Otherwise, the new 2004 TL, the 325i and even the Cadillac CTS do a much better job of having sportiness while still being very comfortable to ride in.

M-Q8

And who ever sed the es300/330 is a sports car? its a luxury sedan darling. If ur not satisfied with the looks of the Es, or any other lexus, then by all means go for a caddie.

maxV

What a useless "if you don't like it, keep quiet and go somewhere else" response.
How did you get that I was looking for a sports car out of that? I am interested in a Lexus in the price range of the ES330 for various reasons, but I don't want to live with the styling of the ES330 or the lack of luxury of the IS300.
I said the ES300 was good-looking enough until they redesigned the 2002s and those were not exactly sports cars either. I am not going to be racing the car, but I'm looking for something with better styling with a "little" more sportiness to the look. This board called the 97-01's the senior citizen mobile, but I think that title actually belongs to the current model ES as far as exterior styling is concerned.
I am satisified with the styling of the Jaguar X-Type and the other cars I mentioned and none of those are sports cars. I can even live with styling of the new 2004 Toyota Solara SLE V6 coupe even though the front is somewhat similar to the ES (with the huge headlights), but I think it came off a little better in front than the ES. However, I would prefer to go with a luxury brand for my next car. I purposely did not include the G35 on the list of alternatives because it doesn't have luxurious interior or comfortably enough ride, however the rest of the cars do.
I'm hoping that the 2005 update in styling can do something to improve the looks of the ES330 or the 2005 or 2006 IS replacement gets a much richer-looking interior. If either of those things happen, I am likely to buy a new Lexus at that time.
If I needed to buy a new car today, I would get something else.

XenonES3

maxV,

I agree with you on many points. The IS doesn't have the luxury feel of the 3 series or A4, truly a misplaced car in the Lexus lineup. With the brilliant 5 series and gorgeous new E class, the GS is no longer a good value for the money.


That leaves us with the ES. An amazing value for the money (no wonder it sells 6-10 times what the GS, and 3-4 times what the IS sell). The front is bold and daring, and from the sides, the car looks substantial. However, the rear end needs work.

Lexus hit the mark in 1992 with the first gen ES, billed as a "luxury sport sedan". From styling to quality to ride to engine performance, the first gen ES set the bar. It's only flaw: handling.

For 02+, mushy handling is acceptable because now the car is billed as a "luxury sedan", not "luxury sport sedan". It's only flaw now: styling.

If Lexus can please us all with the styling with the upcoming "freshening".... then Lexus may create the finest luxury sedan for the money on the planet.

maxV

I went and test drove an ES330 today. The interior is really nice. It "almost" made the car worth buying despite the exterior. The exterior did not look as bad up close, so now I think it's close enough that the right paint color and minor tweaking of the head and tail lights and maybe the grill next year will be enough for me to consider buying a 2005. As long as they do not end up making it even worse with the restyling.
I still did not like a few things about it. The stock stereo was really weak when I tried to listen to FM radio on the clearest station I could get. The highs were not crisp and clear and the bass was muddy, weak and sloppy, not tight. I know it is radio, but I have heard much better sound quality off the air on other car stereos. I know I would not be satisified unless I upgraded to the ML stereo, but the ML requires the navigation system because the dealers never order stock with the ML stereo by itself, so you will never find an ML equipped ES330 on the lot without navigation. ML stereo, navigation plus the other commonly stocked options (HIDs, wood steering wheel, heated seats etc.) push the price over $38K and makes the new TL look more attractive at that point.
One other bad surprise was that the ES330 was quiet, but not nearly as quiet as I expected. I could feel jarring and hear the tire noise very noticably as they hit small bumps on the road. Maybe the tires where overinflated or something.
I also test drove a 2004 Solara SLE V6 a few minutes later and the Toyota was just as quiet and maybe even quieter than the ES330. I could see that the interior plastics and leather were a grade lower, but still very nice. The fake wood vs real wood in the ES330 was the most noticeable difference. The Solara fully loaded with JBL stereo, navigation, 3.3 liter V6, 5 speed automatic with sport shift, side curtain airbags, VSC, heated leather seats (heat on both seat bottom and backrest), moonroof and so on stickered at under $30K and could be had for around $28K after discounts plus 2.9% financing for 60 months, so it looks very attractive for the price.
XM radio is also available on the Solara and not the ES330.
Maybe the 2005 ES330 and other Lexus models will get XM for 2005?

wdlugitch

Why don't you buy a Hyundai Excel, '80's vintage, and wait until you can afford any model Lexus......because you obviously are in the Hyundai league.

I have owned a 1991 ES250, 1993 SC300, 1997 LS400 and currently own a 2002 ES300.....all of which are superior to any of the vehicles you mentioned.

Keep your present automobile, find a job that will allow you to afford a LEXUS, then buy one; any one.

EGainer

if the point of this thread was should you wait for the 2005 styling update, then yes you should wait. unless you want to deal with crap from the other cars, buy lexus. i think that you are already biased against the ES which made you "hear" and "feel" all those bad things you said when you drove the ES. it is much more refined and quiet than the solara... the new solara is based off of the lexus SC as far as styling goes, which is why it looks as good as it does. you have seen what the minor changes to the LS430 have done, maybe.... well if the ES undergoes the same treatment, it might look amazing. i think you need to go to the ES without such a negative look already, and then save up that extra money for the ML and NAV systems, they are worth it...

as far as lexus is concered compared to the other cars, the ES is focused on luxury, the IS on sport. lexus split up thier lower end to attract more buyers, which they are doing plenty of. the TL, 3 series, and CTS try to mix both for the same money, which is why they can't compare. TL is more sport but less lux. the 3 series and audi a4 are both more sport, but not even the same size as the ES, so dont compare, and the CTS is also a smaller car. you dont realize that the 3 and the CTS are both small cars while the ES is a midsize sedan....

i've owned 2 lexus, and now an Audi, the audi is awesome but is nowhere near as reliable as the lexus

M-Q8

what the hell man ? ur new to the forum and this is how u talk to others? i think should should reconsider and start respecting and stop hating.

ALL I MEANT was that the ES is no where near a sports car, and u were looking for 'sportiness' . i sed that is a luxury sedan, and even with all the mods u can perform on it, it still will not be a sports car.
i also think the CTS is more sport lokoing than the ES. so go for it if u like luxury AND sportiness.

wdlugitch

Like I told him yesterday, and was serious, he should go with a Hyundai Excel from the 80's because that is all he is worthy of.

gs400jon

A CTS is sportier looking than an ES? Give us a collective break! The ES was not designed to be sporty, look sporty or suffer the indignation of being mentioned in the same sentence as a collective piece of you know what. I agree with a previous comment saying the front end looks very good but the rear end could be better. It's a great, bang for the buck and affordable luxury car. I have a 2004 ES 330 and am truly impressed with it, compared to the older ES's that were given to me as loaners in the past. It rides a lot better, shifts great and has very good power. For the $20K difference between this car and my GS, I have to say it's a great buy.

Toysrme

If they would just keep the size of the current ES. (larger than a bmw 5)

Then actually get some sleek lines on the front half, instead of just looking all bug eyed and too large. I think the ES would be much more appealing.