chiawei

Just a quick look into sales figure for the E90 sedan vs the IS.

Here is what each did in jan.

IS250/300/350- 4073 in from 453.
E90 sedan- 325i 4152 (up from 3086 1/05), 325xi 1556 (up from 848 1/05), 330i 896 (up from 809), 330Xi 678 (up from 437 1/05)=7,282.

3 series sales is up across the board. The new IS did not slow down the 3 series at all.

spwolf

lol, did you miss the thread? its called 2007 ES 350

did you also read how europeans have had the record incentives in jan? :-)

spwolf

now thats one smart question.... i think not, since it would be an 4cly lexus!

XeroK00L

Well there already is one 4-cylinder Lexus--the IS220d.

I don't think there'll be a hybrid ES in the near term either, however. If it's a 4-cylinder hybrid then it'll be priced lower than the ES350 (much like how the Camry Hybrid is priced below the Camry XLE V6), which makes for an even more entry-level Lexus, not good. If it's a 6-cylinder hybrid then it'll either have to be AWD or suffer from excessive torque steer, yet an AWD ES doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon. So at this point of time I'd say the chances are very low.

chiawei

Obvious someone is not using any logic.

1. BMW had no incentives in Jan for the 3 series.
2. If IS failed to dent 3 series sales, what makes you think that a bigger and more boat like ES will do well against 3 series?

IS is targeted at 3 series and failed to slow down sales of the 3 series. ES on the other hand is aiming for a much different customer profile than the 3 series.

What remain to be seen is what IS/ES will do after initial rush is over. The GS had good 1st two month and tanked after that (was out sold by E60 sedan- minus the M5/wagons by 2:1 margin). Same thing happened to RL. Neither new GS and RL is doing well against the 5 series, which is the class leader in this segment. BTW- there was no incentives on the 5 series either.

DCX on the other hand does have huge incentive in jan. And was only able to move about 2500 E-class (still beat GS by about 600 to 700 cars).

So far both 3 series and 5 series has been gaining market share despite competition's new cars.

Agni88

Drive a 330i, then you will see the difference

encore888

Come on now, there's a lot of slices of the luxury pie...and room for the top players.

I do think the IS may eventually eat into the 3-series' 'slice of the pie' but it will take time, and will not make more than a small dent...so far no other vehicles have been able to touch it.

But the RX outsells the 3-series, and the ES is not bad either at #5 of the top 10 luxe vehicles.

Furthermore, I think equating the GS which is doing well, #3 behind 5-series and E-class, with the bottom-of-the-heap RL is a bit much. The GS trendline that matters most is how it does year after year, and so far the first year is good IMO.

halfpast3

I have, and it's a great car, all I'm saying is in a 0-60 or 1/4 ml the new ES should run with it. I know the ES is far from a corner carver. It's not meant to be. I bought mine because I wanted luxury, I've had my share of sports cars. The quality of a Lexus far exceeds that of a Bimmer, Audi, or Benz and that's a fact. You're all right the 330 has a market that is very tough to break into. I do believe that the IS will carve it's own niche out though. I personally would rather drive the IS because it outruns the 330. Do you guys do much slalom track racing? If not, at the stoplight I'd rather be in the IS so I could dust the Bimmer like pledge.

chiawei

No it's not.

The 3 series sales actually increased on yearly basis after IS was introduced.

In fact the E90 sedan outsold entire E46 line up when you compare Jan 05 to Jan 06 data. (7800 vs 7000).

The 5 series also enjoyed the same sucess when compare data on yearly basis.

The fact of matter is that prior to jan, lexus has not problem moving 2500 GS per month, but in jan 06, lexus did not even move 2,000 GS. The GS demand has stablized after introduction.

I am not equating GS to the RL. I am stating that GS is not doing as well as people here made it out to be. GS has been sucessful in taking away market share from E class. However, the 5 is taking a even bigger chunk out. The 5 series sales is up 1/3 if you compare 1/06 data to 1/05.

Also RX does not compete with the E90 (3 series).

The fact of matter is that lexus has failed to gain market share from BMW. BMW has actually improved its hold on the market. Even with a focused IS, the 3 series sales simply has gotten better and shows no impact with introduction of IS.

Based on performance of GS, with sales on the decline into stable demand after novelty wears off, you can safely conclude that the IS will probably fail in its mission to slow down the 3 series.

Lexus positioned IS to be a direct competitor of the 3 series, but it has failed miserably in its mission of stealing sales away from 3 series (even though it sold very well by stealing from the C). My main point is that if IS failed so badly in stealing the 3 series's sales, why would anyone think that the ES would be able to steal sales away from E90?

You have to be worried, because E60 is a 3 year old car and it is doing very well and gaining market share despite going up against two new competitor in GS, and M from japan.

Pheonix

Yeaaaaah. I think it's going to be a long time before the IS can eat into 3 sales.
Regardless of how good the IS can compete in the 3's market...
Well... Just look at the A4 & RS4. Great cars... Good competition... But what they are just doesn't sway many 3, or M3 buyers to Audi.
BMW has their 3 formula down. Until they just screw one up, nothing is really going to cut into 3 actual 3 sales.





AFA a Hybrid ES. Yes, eventually. The JDM Camry platform will get the i4 hybrid drivetrain, so at that point the ES will likely get the hybrid drivetrain. The v6 drivetrain will fit, but they're never going to use it, and the Camry car platform will never return to drving 4 wheels in North America.
Hell will have to freeze over for that to happen.

encore888

I am not worried that much at all. Just because BMW is doing well does not mean that Lexus cannot do well also. The two are not mutually exclusive.

The E90 is new, and I don't expect the IS to make any dent in E90 sales in a few months. I expect it to take years before any appreciable effects, if any, are apparent. And that does not mean the IS cannot be a success. Can it be that the IS grows to a Luxe top 10 sales success, growing closer to the E90 sales year by year? Possibly. Could it be that this growth comes from mostly new or other luxury brand buyers, too? Possibly.

Many on this board had differing reactions to the debut of the GS and IS. The clamor for the "GS 350 and GS 460" tells you something, but such a revision is not being pushed for the IS. Equating the GS with the IS is not accurate. For some reason, call it instinct, I think the IS demand will not decline so precipitously.

I agree that the ES has less chance of stealing E90 sales than the IS. The IS has the best chance of any car out there right now of doing so, and it indeed might. But a few months is way too premature to be calling the IS a failure, when it is selling at a pace to meet or exceed Lexus' targets, and has a higher proportion of top-end buys (IS 350) then their projections indicated.

Time will tell whether Lexus can affect BMW sales, but I regard such a focus as being rather incomplete when looking at the overall luxury market. The IS may have been talked up as a 3-series competitor, but in reality it is facing a plethora of competitors, including the C-class, G35, A4, etc.

I believe that the MAIN goal of the IS is not to dethrone the 3-series (that's the PR/hype)...the main goal is to position the IS as its #2 or #1 best-selling sedan/coupe/range, and to expand Lexus' presence abroad, particularly in Europe.

Back to the ES, it is in a market where there are few direct competitors...none from BMW and several other luxe makes either. It has carved out a 'niche' as the #5 best-selling luxury car, and seems poised to stay that way. It seems that the 3-series has its own culture/fanbase, and admirable thing to have and the best thing going for BMW yet. But to point out that its uber-power has limits, I mentioned the RX--not that it is a direct competitor at all...but simply to point out that it has a customer base larger than the 3-series.

encore888

Does anyone know if the ES debut next week will be streamed live on the internet? It's strange how secretive and quiet Lexus has been about this particular model.

Bluesman2

Yes, they will provide a live feed on the Lexus site under the Auto Show section.

http://www.lexus.com/autoshow/

GS3rdwow

Something just occurred to me...the pics posted from the port of Japan. The Transmission shifter **** was way too long. For some reason, i think it wont look like that when the car comes to the US. I say that because the current LS shifter is long but the new LS has the same shifter length as the new GS...i know cuz iv sat in the new LS at an autoshow. Its the exact same in size and length as the new GS.

So im a bit confident it wont look that long, and instead will fall in line with the rest of the shifter lengths and look.

sk72

Yep... I got the black Diamond with cashmere Int... I fell in love the moment I saw the color of this car in a bright sun light....