rai

I know the ES350 is not out yet. Not long now though .

I know the RL is a more expensive car but it comes only one way (loaded) with NAV, HIDs, active headlights, leather, sunroof, premium audio etc..

Big point the RL has SH-AWD while the ES350 has FWD...

They may not be cross shopped much, but they may well be.

RL costs like $49K-$52K, but I hear people are dealing them down to the mid $40s. So this is where the loaded ES350 can be seen to cost about the same.

Any thoughts?

I know this is a ES forum, I'm not trying to start a fight and I suspect the ES will get most of the votes.

Just wanted to discuss the pos and cons of both. If they come in around the same $43K to $46K or so.

Thanks..

Oivey2000

I think you are comparing apples & oranges. The comparable vehicle to compare an Acura RL to would be the GS300 AWD. In fact, I just read an excellent review in which the RL was compared to the GS300, an Audi A6 & BMW 5 series. Those are the vehicles in the same market class and the RL won hands down, with the GS300 brining up the rear. So, I don't think there's any comparison between the RL & the ES because they are are not in the same class. That being said, I think that the new ES is going to be a great vehicle for people who value a silent cabin, creamy acceleration, quiet engine and lots of luxury for around $40K. Front wheel drive is good if you live in an area where there is not alot of snow, but I've had front wheel drive vehicles before which did well in the snow. Naturally, all wheel drive will give you better handling in poor weather, but most people may not notice the difference and you can't beat the refinement of a Lexus.

rai

I don't see why not, (if they are selling for similar price).

They are both 4 door mid-size sedans with 3.5L V6 about the same power. They probably have near the same features if you get most everything on the ES350. They'll have differences in exact features but 88% will overlap (I'd guess).

The RL not for $50K, but if they were selling for $45K (whch I hear some people are getting). Then they come to very similar price, features, and performance. Neither is the sporty car like a 5-series.

LexFather

Honest comparo. Why?
1. RL has SH-AWD but is still FWD based, 70/30 to the front wheels until slippage is detected.
2. Both cars are based on other cars. The RL is a stretched Accord platform. The ES is a Camry platform.
3. Both have 3.5 liter engines with comparable power. The ES maybe slightly quicker as the RL is 4,000 lbs b/c of its AWD capability.
5. Interiors are on par with one another.
6. Features are on par with one another.
7. Both cars dimensions are similar
8. Both are not breaking any styling ground but neither is ugly. Both good looking with the usual blandness.


This is the RLs problem and why its sales are just horrific. It doesn't give a supreme arguement to buy over what is a lesser priced car.

You can't go wrong with either one. I'd get the ES.

kietlander

RL over ES anyday, but i rather have is350 over RL. or GS300 awd over RL.

badgis

I know this might not be the beat reason to choose a car. The Acura name just isnt looked upon the same way lexus is. In most articles ive seen the Acura is looked upon a third tier. Lexus is looked upon as First tier ( buy most consumers). The perception is that lexus is a much more prestigious Name plate.


Scott

Pheonix

They don't even directly compete against each other. The Acura buyer is going to be looking at a BMW, Merc, Audi ect.
While an ES buyer will be someone coming up from domestic/import mid-size sedans that cruise. Or coming from the crappy domestic luxury brands.


Completely different market.
If you want luxury, buy the ES, if you want performance, buy the honda.

rai

I disagree, b/c they BOTH have luxury. You can't say the RL does not have luxury features. And the RL is NOT a sports sedan. It's 4000 lbs for gods sake.

I think you guys are putting the RL is another level b/c it's priced at $50K while you think the ES is priced at $35K.

I'm just saying what if the ES was $42K (could happen) and what if the RL was $45K (could happen) with discounts.

The RL is a nice car, but b/c it's priced at $49K it doesn't sell well. Acura sells maybe 9K/year and Lexus sells 70K/year. But if Lexus sold only the ultra-lux every option for $44K it wouldn't sell as many.

bpv12

The RL is a nice car, but b/c it's priced at $49K it doesn't sell well. Acura sells maybe 9K/year and Lexus sells 70K/year. But if Lexus sold only the ultra-lux every option for $44K it wouldn't sell as many.[/QUOTE]

The fact that the Lexus will supposedly top out at 44K doesnt mean that these vehicles are necessarily comparable. Some people maybe getting theRL at 45K but when you consider tax, title, etc. its gonnbe more like 49K. And you said it yourself with only 9k in sales a year, why would you want to buy a lame duck? The mass consumer market cannot be totally wrong in rejecting this car. I'm sure the ultra lux will not be the big seller in the class, especially when you consider that mark levinson/ navigation is a rare option on these vehicles now.

Osiris_x11

I'd personally cross-shop the two. But hey... then again, that's just me! What's funny is that the TL is nearly the same size/proportions as the RL...!?! And the TL definitely is a direct competitor of the IS250/IS350...

If I was looking at the G300/GS430, I would cross-shop it w/ BMW's 5-series, Audi's A6 S-line, and Infiniti's M35/45 (no Mercedes E-class, just not keen on the styling/looks).

The new Lexus ES350 & Acura RL are just newer generations of the ol' skool ES300 & 2nd gen. Legend of the early 90's in my opinion. Back then they seemed to be competitors, and again seem to be IMHO. Man, what a tough decision though... the RL's near-perfect interior, rock-solid feel, laden tech' goodies... and then there's the ES350's slick styling, luxury-galore, and Lexus refinement!?! I'd be gutted w/ either decision, I'm sure of that...

I still think the ES350 should be a ~$35k'ish mid-size entry-level luxury sedan. IS350 & GS300 would be more appealing 'buys' for myself at $40k'ish. And the RL should've been a $40k'ish mid-size touring luxury sedan, as it sold the bests' when it's MSRP of $49k was lowered to $41.5k-$42.5k w/ dealer incentives this past summer.

rai

I agree.

I don't even acknowledge the GS300 exists. It is a non enitity (no offence) but when I head the IS had a 305HP engine and costs less than the GS300, I don't pay any nevermind to the GS300.

Now when the GS350 comes out and particularly the GS350 awd then I say "game on" in that case the GS350 should be considered long and hard.

I love the ES350 looks, size, price etc.. Just don't know if I want 270hp with FWD. I'll have to try it.

I'm not looking at RWD cars since it'd be for my wife and she doesn't like them. She likes awd and fwd so that leaves:

GS350 awd
M35 awd
RL
ES350

Will be fun to look at all of them, with the ES350 weighing the least and costing the least it may get the nod.

element51

if you can get both of the cars for about the same price, i'd go with the RL. you're comparing ultra-quiet, ultra smooth, and ultra-reliable lexus with an ultra-quiet, ultra-smooth, and ultra reliable Acura I'd say that the cars are about evenly matched, but the acura has a sportier feel and i think the exterior looks soo much better. The interior is gorgeous, even without the gobs of "faux" wood that the lexus brings. The lexus has the name, the comfort (too "old-person" comfort for me) and the smoothness. Plus, you'll look less like the 'primitive brother' (camry, accord) in the RL's distinct styling. As an even nicer bonus, they only sell 9,000 RL's every year right? What are the chances of your neighbor having one? you're getting an "exclusive" car.

Even as a lexus owner, my money goes for the acura. I work part-time as a valet, and i get excited every time the RL comes in, it has an awesome feel to it. I have to say that when the es330 comes in, "it's a nice car, but it's just not doesn't excite me"

careful though, you wont be getting the "sound-absorbing paint"

GFerg

ES all the way.Its the new hotness.

badgis

All the wood in the ES in REAL Rosewood. Lexus does not use Fake wood.


Scott

Osiris_x11

I've generally been preferential towards Honda/Acura over Toyota/Lexus when it came to overall driver's feel/experience (ie. Gen.II Legend > ES, Accord > Camry, Integra > Celica, RL > GS300), but Lexus styling & interiors were more complete and luxurious for the most part. It's amazing that many years later, I still feel like a rich-important man when I get into my '93 ES.

Toyota styling has come a long way in terms of the current Avalon and particularly the Camry as I saw a new one the other day. It looked hellava' alot better than it's predecessor. I wasn't expecting much based on the pics seen in the past of the forthcoming Camry. Assuming this holds true for the ES350, damn- it's gonna look sweet.

That's the one thing w/ the RL, where Acura could've had a grand-slam only if the styling was a bit more inspiring or inviting rather than using VW's formula of small/medium/large platforms w/ one style (ie. Accord ~ RL). Instead, it only got a triple due to the excellent interior & technical wizzardry under the skin. Damn shame too, coz for life-long fwd drivers this RL would be their dream come true w/ it's SH-AWD. It's more 'fun' than Audi's Quattro in terms of spirited canyon or hill runs. And Benzes 4Matic, Bimmer's iX, Infiniti's a.w.d., GS300 4wd, and others just seem to have thrown themselves into the segment as a token.

Rai, word. That's all I can say...