1984911Tar

Currently have the TL, and getting board of it.

Would like something a little larger, but the GS350 is out, so thinking of the ES350.

Michael

CactusMatt

When I was in the Lexus sales office he had a book on the ES that compared it feature for feature with the TL. I drove the TL before the ES. A lot of people say that these cars are not going to be shopped by the same people, but it would appear Lexus thinks so.

I liked the TL for the more sporty feel, but the outside mirrors were too small for me, where the ES has large mirrors. After hearing the Mark Levinson I was sold on the ES, and the NAV on the ES is nicer.

If the TL was AWD I would have a harder time not buying it. It's a really nice car.

1984911Tar

I think they will be shopped, as you see a ton of 45's somethings driving the TL, me I am 37, and prefer comfort over sport these days.

Interesting comment on the Navi, as Acura/Honda has been know of being a leader in the industry on Navi.

Michael

CactusMatt

Don't get me wrong, the TL Nav works really well and looks nice, but I would give the edge to the new ES and the 5th gen Nav.

Rockville

back to back at the ES350 intro. The Acura had good acceleration with a firm suspension setting. It felt small inside next to the ES350' roomy interior. It had a three foot larger turning circle which made it unwieldy when coming about...It exhibited torque steering on heavy acceleration but the ES350 did not. The most dramatic differences were in the interior. The Acura was not in the same league in both materials and ergonomics. The Acura Nav uses a fingertip joystick on the dash. It has a large 8 inch nav screen but that only amplifies the inferior graphics and resolution. The ES350's VGA touchscreen is like watching HDTV. If you get the Mark Levinson it can make a movie exciting with its 7.1 surround sound. It uses simulated plastic wood when Lexus uses Walnut. The ES350 greets you when you arrive with puddle lamps under the mirrors which are auto dimming while the Acura doesn't do that. You can get the optional rear sunshade on the ES350 but not on the TL. The airbags on the Lexus are more advanced and offer knee airbags standard with optional rear seat side airbags while neither are available on the TL. Acura doesn't do daytime running lights or park assist or first aid kits or rear seatbelt pretensioners. The Lexus has more power, torque, better fuel efficiency with its 6 speed and greater fuel capacity to boot. It offers more legroom, shoulder room in the rear seat and has more than 2 cu. ft. of trunk space. The rear back up camera has a stunningly clear picture but Acura doesn't offer that.

It's not fair really comparing these cars. The RL is closer to the ES350 in content but I would still give the ES350 the edge in the luxury department. The Acuras drive well and are reliable but are not as refined in their technology or materials as the Lexus counterparts.

Rock

07LexusGuy

Nice comparison Rock,

Also like to add that the ES comes standard with the smart key system while I don't see that on the TL's list.

LexFather

Also a big deal is the ES is built in Japan, the TL is built in Ohio, there is a huge difference in build quality, especially after years of ownership.

TL is a good car, my favorite current Acura.

chinaman38

You cant really compare the 2 cars. My mom is in the market for a ES350 and I have a TL. She currently has an 03 ES300. Yea the Lexus has smart key however that was an option that came out for 2007. the new TL is still on 2004 platform and only added a few options to the 2006 list. But if you look at it TL came out with bluetooth before Lexus did. Also the TL comes with more standard features than the ES like HID, heated mirrors, heated seats, leather, sunroof, etc. The only big option you can really get is Navigation. For the price I believe the TL is best. Of course the TL ride quality is more sporty than the Lexus. When the new TL is released in 2009 then its possible to make a comparison.

bunka

I have a fully loaded TL as well as a fully loaded GX therefore both have NAVI and the TL's NAVI is simply miles and miles ahead of the GX's. Both cars are '04's so that shows the state of the art at that time. Both NAVI's have had minor enhancements over the 2 year period but the TL's is far superior in a number of ways... (1) The MOST IMPORTANT aspect of a NAVI is ease of use. The TL's system is intuitive and find many, many more site MUCH faster than the GX's system is capable of. I some cases, you can even search in certain ways on the Lexus at all. (2) The TL NAVI CANY be operated while moving. Afterall, the WHOLE point to NAVI is finding something you are unfamiliar with. The Lexus model makes you actually STOP the car, move tot he side of the road, enter the information. Find nothing. Enter the information a different way. Find a location two states away. Enter the information ONE MORE time and FINALLY locate the site you want. THEN and only then can you start driving. With how difficult the Lexus NAVI can be, I can see a point to this. However, in stark contrast, the TL NAVI can be searched while under way. Searching is better and faster and usually only takes a minute or two. In addition the voice searches on the TL work FAR better than they do on the GX. In fact until I found the Lexus NAVI override trick I felt like the NAVI in the GX was a COMPLETE waste of my money. Now, onto the cars themselves. The TL is a nice sporty car which has had 270HP for the past three years. The new ES has now caught up in the HP area so that is good. The style of the new ES is also in line with the TL IMHO. The paint finish and the leather interior on the ES is better. The Acura interior is OK and I like it but my wife prefers the more "comfy" plushness of the Lexus. The push-button start and panoramic roof is catching up with Mercedes who has had both these features for a while now. Still, it's nice to see such options available out of Lexus. The new ES is priced "competitively" (from the mfg perspecitve) but in reality it may still be a little bit excessive in the general marketplace. Since Lexus is obviously targeting the Infiniti GS and Acura TL as their targets and the price for either of those cars FULLY loaded is UNDER $35K, the Lexus needs to be near that figure as well but a fully loaded ES comes in closer to the $40 figure so I think they've missed their target slightly. After having owned both mfg cars with similar characteristics I would probably lean towards the ES350 (even with the poorer NAVI) if the prices were similar but an extra $5K at this price point is like trying to ford the Atlantic in a piper cub...It could probably be done but you are asking a LOT of this demographic. As for me, I think I will go back to the larger car in my next one so the LS450h is probably my next car...I miss my old BMW 740iL

07LexusGuy

Actually, the TL showed 270HP prior to adoption of the new testing standards. The figures now show 258HP from the same engine. Just as the 2005 Avalon first came out, it was listed with 280HP, then for 2006 that same 3.5L engine was rated only at 268HP based on the new standard. So based on that, I would assume the 272HP in the ES350 would probably be somewhere in the mid 280's or low 290's if it was being tested by 2004/05 model year standards.

But... please don't ask me about all the details of the new testing standard, I don't know much else beside the fact that it exist and it mandates a use of different fuel grades among other things.

chinaman38

It is true the 2004 and 2005 TL do have 270HP, in 2006 they changed it to 258HP. However something regarding the engine and torque ended up being the same in the long run

S L I C K

I like the styling of the TL ( interior and exterior ) better. Build quality definitely goes to the 2007 ES 350.

BobBass

Bunka,

Does your GX have the latest Lexus NAV system? I am under the impression that the new ES has the newest version that Lexus offers.

I didn't really scrutinize the NAV on my test drive, but from what I did see, it is pretty impressive. Much more sophisticated than what was in my '02 Cadillac STS and currently in my '04 Maxima.

Touch-screen is definitely the way to go. The joystick bit is really cumbersome.

07LexusGuy

Yah you're right, same engine 04 through to now, just different way of testing for power. Same reason why the '05 ES330 showed 225HP and in '06 it was rated to 218HP - still the same engine though.

LexFather

What do you mean you can't compare the two cars. They are good competiton, similar in size, the same class and both based on FWD Accords/Camrys.

I don't know where some TL owners get off thinking their TL is better or so much better than a ES. They are for all intents and purposes equivilent.

The Tl comes with tons of standard features b/c that is the Acura way, not the LUXURY way. No other brand does such a thing. Luxury is about CHOICE. Clearly, the loaded car, cheaper than the competiton way has worked for Acura. What maybe a better value to you, may not be to the next person.

You always get what you pay for.