spwolf

aperantly, he does not understand cars have suspension... And he definetly doesnt know what suspension actually does.

spwolf

it is not about others not doing it, it is about people seeing it as normal.

Again, suspension can not be weak, it can be soft. You have soft suspension which is designed for comfort.

Many cars I have owned do the same thing.

Only car that doesnt is my MR-S turbo, which is also tuned with stiffer anti-sway bars and stiffer springs. You can barely move that car.

ES350Bob

If you review the responses I have had to my post you will see where people do have vehicles that do NOT do this. Since I complained about the shocks from day one, later to have wipers rock my car while tooling down the road and far more noticeable for sure at stop signs and the like, to me, that isn't normal. Something is allowing it to happen to an excessive degree. As a side note I have brought this to the attention of officials of Toyota/Lexus and told them part of the reason I think it is happening on some vehicles and not others and they agreed with me though looking into it but sometimes others on here have amazing service department people they have taken their concerns to who may already KNOW for certain why this is happening and can post same for me.

Where just the wipers are concerned I hesitate to post my view of a fix for this until absolutely confirmed by a Toyota/Lexus official but here it is. The wiper positions are set when the windshield is dry, when dry the selected setting when attaching wipers in some vehicles if they are slightly off when attaching them allows them to repeatedly slam the heck out the pillar on drivers side of car when the windshield is wet as is happening to mine. Dry it doesn't, even with misting it isn't near as bad as when raining it smacks the heck out of the pillar on the driver's side of car on high, but this alone in my opinion should not on it's own cause a car to rock as it does though it isn't helping whatever else may be otherwise presenting as what I had called weak shocks.

toneman

"Hard rain"? Isn't that called "hail", if not "snow"?

Whether or not it does have "enough force to injury (sic) your hand if you try to touch it"...I for one wouldn't be foolish enough to even consider finding out if indeed moving wipers can injure my hand. After all, how many people would even think about trying to put their hand next to a moving wiper?

I can only assume if one has to wonder about this, then it would appear that he/she most likely has the wiper setting set on AUTO all the time; with just a little common sense, one would just switch the wiper setting from AUTO to OFF under such a circumstance. After all, isn't that's why there's an OFF setting for the wipers?

I'm just being humorous here, so please don't take any of the above too seriously...even though IMHO my comments do have some merit to them.

sarge43

Here's another response: Unfortnately I had to clean off my windshield yesterday and ran the wipers. Tried all speeds and they operated normally (i.e. went back and forth at the various indicated speeds without and vibration or whole car shaking/rocking). Looks to be more of an isolated incident?

Gotham

Hey spwolf,

What the hell does it matter if someone is having complaints about their car? Unless you have personal experience with the guy's actual ES then you don't know what is really going on.

Seeing as you don't own the model in question, why do you feel your ideas are more valid than the owner's?

Maybe ES350bob has some legit issues with his car. Maybe it's all in his head. Either way, you aren't being very nice. Why?

ES350Bob

Gotham,

This part of the above made my day, cracked me up, and I agree even if it's all in my head it should be ok to post without insult.....LOL

Seriously though, where my valves needing a valve job requiring shims added or my transmission slipping gears 2/3 and 3/4 or this strange wipers on high during a rain storm rocking the car phenomina it's all legit, just trying to understand and get to the bottom of issues with my car.

This is my third Lexus and it has issues my prior 2 did not as new cars or other new cars I had in the past either for that matter.

I did not bring up the wipers on high to a Japan trained tech as I view it as nuisance item and was there for my serious issue of engine and transmission that day, the valves needing shimming and transmission were validated as problematic by one though.
The wipers I brought up to a Toyota official who appreciated my observation that the driver's side one slams into the windshield pillar repeatedly which it shouldn't and more research is required as to what if any role the suspension plays in allowing the wipers to do this. That will be addressed Oct. 12 or sooner maybe, so the interested should stay tuned for a forthcoming update on this phenomina.

ES350Bob

Thanks sarge for the info,

Mine barely does it with mister and wipers, in fact if that were the worst of it I'd likely not even mention it.

In a rain storm though with windshield really wet is when it really gets going.

sarge43

Gotcha. Will either have to await the rain or try it in the driveway with the kids and the hose.

ES350Bob

Now that you thought of the kids with a hose, waiting for a rain sounds boring, I vote the kids in the driveway, sounds like fun for them to see if Dad rocks in the car with the wipers on high....LOL

Good thinking there, sure beats what I did which was keep laying on the misting feature only netting a slight rock no way near as noticeable as happens in a rain storm.

Kids with a hose is a more entertaining way by far and if it happens see if it might be in part because your driver's side wiper repeatedly smacks into your pillar as mine does.

2thfixr

I don't own a ES350 but I will be picking one up on Sat so I can't speak from personal experience. In fact, I have never driven an ES350 so I am probably one that shouldn't speak at all regarding this issue but is it remotely possible that the wiper shaking problem is due to the relatively soft suspension (for comfort vs performance) and extreme noise isolation (causing you to be more sensitive to other stimuli). I would think that if your rear springs were "too weak" or "too soft", you would have handling issues. Extremely soft rear springs will cause a lot of understeer in a car as well as severe squatting on acceleration. Having soft front springs would cause extreme oversteer and severe diving upon braking. If both ends were that soft, the car would handle and ride like a 70's or early 80's Cadillac. You would also have problems with body roll as well as frequent incidents where the car would bottom out and hit the rear bump stops. If you are not having any of those issues, I doubt it's the springs. Maybe the shocks are at fault and you could check by merely loading each corner and letting go to see if the car returns to normal ride height smoothly without undulating. Another possibility is that Lexus may be using a progressive rate spring that is soft initially to offer a compliant ride and then becomes firmer as it is loaded. How does your car handle in general?

I can only offer my .02 here but believe me when I say that this issue does concern me as does the engine knocking issue, wind noise issue and the tranny issue. Have these issues been resolved in current builds?

ES350Bob

2thfixr,

This past Tuesday I drove a loaner in a rainstorm, an ES350 and the wipers on high did not rock the car as mine does. Several on here have let me know their's do not.

I was told this is normal for the ES350 with the focus on the wipers, motor, bulk of wiper and not suspension. And told by the guy his wife's Lexus RX is worse than mine. He is a Lexus field tech and he had no comment when I told him the loaner I had just driven in the rain the night before did not do this.

I was also told the deisel engine knocking tapping noise I am dealing with every day is normal too, though it was prior diagnosed by dealer Svc. manager and tech forman as valve problem same/similar diagnosis as 2 independent experts I had hired.

I hope you have arranged to cold start your car coming in before accepting it and immediately drive from cold for at least 3 miles to be sure it does not have this diesel engine noise you will later be told is normal for the car. I hope you get it up to at least 55 mph to be sure you do not start to notice the excessive wind noise issue many of us are dealing with as well because it will be minimized and called buffeting though anybody else would call it excessive wind noise. Both before you accept the vehicle.

I am going to be finalizing a new MB today and hopefully have it as soon as Saturday or Monday.

2thfixr

I feel for you, there is nothing worse than a manufacturer dismissing issues. FWIW, I just got some info from someone that worked @ Lexus until about a month ago and he said that they have replaced (not repaired) 8 transmissions so far because of issues similar to yours.

Also, what model MB are you considering? Go to MBforum.org before you buy because I can tell you right now that MB reliability is less than stellar. I have had 5 new Mercedes in the past 9 years and currently have 2. My wife's 2005 S500 has probably spent a total of 3-4 weeks in the shop due to various issues that have yet to be resolved. They are not serious but still an indicator to you that reliability is not what you think it may be. One recurring problem that won't go away and has yet to be fixed is the power folding mirrors. When locked with the keyless go system, the car locks and the mirrors fold. When you touch the door handle the car unlocks and the mirrors unfold. Her car intermittently decides to unfold halfway and stop. Pain in the butt but not a drivability issue. Her A/C system went out. Her entire Command system had to be replaced because of a faulty CD player. Her previous 2002 S500 also had problems. At one point, the car completely froze up like a computer. Not even the windows would work. It needed a software update?!?! Can you believe that?

Anyways, proceed with caution and do your research on the MB forums. Thanks to people like you, I know that a test drive is a must and I have a specific checklist of things to look for.

2thfixr

BTW: My 2007 GL450 has been absolutely trouble free. (sound of me knocking on wood)

ES350Bob

Good advice to proceed with caution as I ended up feeling I should allow more time before rushing into any other vehicle, that and a misunderstanding over price increase for leather and 6 CD when it should have been priced that way all along instead of MB tex and single CD.

I had been thinking C280, prior owned a C240 and never had any issues with it so felt comfortable about a C280. When the pricing changed and my prior honesty about issues with the Lexus came into play to a degree, I nicely declined and said I'd think about it all which is how I felt, feel. I think they are rethinking their thinking too but am now feeling like some time away from having to make such a decision is in order.

Glad to read you have your checklist and I hope you find the one intended for you is absent issues, in which case it would be a keeper for sure. You may have to alow time for any trasnsmission issues to surface but then it seems, as you are aware, they will replace them if need be.

The Lexus AC kicks MB AC rear big time, that you will be very pleased with.